About those cars with computerized handling?

[C9]

I keep seeing TV ads extolling the virtues of car's that purport to do the handling for you via computer and sensors.
Mainly for emergency situations far as I can tell.

I'm guessing that part of it is shocks stiffening up, perhaps an electronic locking rear axle - although how you can call a partially applied brake a locking device for the rear axle is beyone me and I do know the snow country trick of dragging the brakes under slippery acceleration traction conditions with an open diff - ABS on all four wheels etc.

Is this a genuine improvement in handling that benefits us all or just something to help the relatively unskilled driver?

[enjenjo]

There is more to it than just shock stiffness and traction control. Some of the systems lower or raise the car depending on the speed, and some have the ability to adjust roll stiffness on the fly.

I don't think it will make a poor driver a better driver, but it will make  a good driver better able to take it closer to the edge of handling.

[Carps]

Hi Jay,
Depends which way you look at it.

Mostly it's a genuine way to keep even the experienced drivers out of trouble.

Most of the new super trick differentials are Torsen Limited slip, using gears to limit the slip.  I believe there's even a couple of well known performance rear end gear companies offering this type of differential gear set for rodding and drag racing applications.  Much less aggressive, yet more effective compared to the old detriot locker and it's clutch packs.

As for traction controls, these systems use the brakes to control or stop a spinning wheel.  usually thay are linked to electronic throttle control so that the engine torque is also controlled at the same time to help reduce wheelspin.  Some of our transmissions even use a 'second start' or 'snow mode' which is driver switchable to stop the auto trans shifting back to it's lowest ratio in slushy or slimy conditions, to reduce torque delivery and minimise the chances of drive wheels spinning.

Stability controls use a range of sensors to detect wheel slip, yaw and pitch, applying wheel brakes individually along with the afforementioned trhottle control to reduce engine torque and help keep the car from over or under steering and instead tracking correctly.  The new Lexus GS430 is the worlds first car to feature what we call VDIM, that's Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management which takes stability control to the next level.  Instead of using individul wheel braking, this car changes the steering input angle in combination with appropriate braking and throttle control to seamlessly keep the car tracing where it's pointed.

To experience this in action at high speed, is simply sensational.

One of my first experiences was on a track with deep water running across the apex of a high speed corner.  At around 40 mph in a car without any kind of staability control, the car simply turned itself inside out an speared off the road.  With regular stability control, and the same road speed, the driver is most aware of the interference but is able to keep the car following near to th desired course and at least steer out of trouble.  With VDIM, the car can be driven through the corner at better than double the speed and although it feels weird for the car to be steering itself it's amazing how it just keeps the ting stuck to the road and the right line.  I've been lucky enough to test it at what most would call insane speeds and am quite happy to call it a lifesaving technology.

Otehr things like radar or laser cruise control, once experienced are simply so good that they make the old stuff obsolete in e a heartbeat.  With Dynamic Cruise, you set the road speed and the desired distance between yours and the vehicle in front.  If you set a gap that's too little for the selected speed, the system will override the driver input.  Then you just cruise.  If the car in front slows, your car slows automatically, maintaining the safe gap.  If the car in front slows suddenly, your car applies it's own brakes to wash off speed and at the same time sounds an alarm to tell the driver to start concentrating and drive the car (the car won't brake to avoid a crash, that's the driver's job).

On the other hand, our pre crash system also does a lot.  This uses thesame radar unit as the cruise control to detect obstacles in front of the car.  In the event the system calculates that a collision is inveitable, it prepares the brakes for an emergency application, prepares the airbags for raapid deployment and activates the seatbelt pretensioners to tug the passengers snugly into their seats.  testing has proven this system whist not able to avoid the accident, will reduce the severity of injury to driver and passengers by up to 70% and again, i say that's a good thing.

Of course to help in the low speed department, there's brakes linked to parking sonar that apply to stop the car at low speed from bumping adjaced vehicles when parking.  Most Lexus models are now fitted with reversing cameras, which may sound corny, but are actually a great safety feature.

Future technlogy uses sensors that can read the white centre lines and operate the steering to keep a car in cruise mode, centred between the white lines on highways, to reduce the chaces of head on collision.

Then there's the prius parking mode, which I've told you guys about before and we demonstrated at motor shows around the country (well my country anyhow)  This is where the car drives itself  to execute a perfect three point paaralell parking manouvre.

Something to help reduce wear and tear as well as improve fuel consumption, takes engine transmission intel;igence to another level.  It;s just been launced for corolla models in japan and will be pretty much standard fare around the globe in the not too distant future.

Currently, the intelligent transmissions downshift going uphil as the engine starts to get loaded up and going down hill as itt startes to freewheel.  In cornering, the transmission ratio is pretty much linked to raodspeed going in and requires throttle application to downshioft for the exit.

This new system is linked to the nav system, which includes a lot more data like topograaphy , in the maps.  Thus instead of waiting for the engine to load up when going up hill, the car 'sees' the hill coming and downshiofts early to avoid loading the engine.  Likewise, when a down hill situation is looming, it dowshifts to deliver effective engine braking and reduce the chances of ver running the engine and for corners, the appropriate ratio is slected for optimum cornering performance.

Then there's variable gear ratio electric power steering..  No hydraulic pressure so no oil to worry about.  And the steering gets lighter or quicker depending upon driver inputs.  So when you are in that panic situation and need the car to react quickly, the gear ratio is increased and the car reacts more quickly than normal driving.

How about windscreen wipers that turn themselves on when it starts to raing.  Nothing really new there.  But what about linking the variable speed to roadspeed and volume of water on the windscreen.  The add a computer control that slows the blades down just before they change direction, so they don't make that slapping noise because there's no blade shock, which means the blades stay stuck to the glass and therefore clean the indscreen more effectively, and without making any noise.

Active headlamps, that maintain their level according to the load in the vehicle, nothing new, but the modern ones actually work and in some vehicles thay are more dynamic, with the inside healdamp being articulated to follow the road around corners or bends whislt the other continues to look straight ahead.  The direction and angle of the inside lamp is not just inked to steering angle but roadspeed as well.

Or the simple matter of brakes, I now ABS is passe and nowadays it's pretty much standard fare.  For my money a good thing since I believe it;s second only to the seatbelt as a lifesaving feature.  However, it is only as effective as the driver's ability to keep their foot on the pedal and the line pressure up.  Not any more.  Brake sssist, reads the pedal impact and calculates if it's an emergency or normal action.  If an eergency, all the driver has to do is keep their foot on the padal and the system optimises line pressure for maximum braking effect.

Of corse making the ABS earn it's keep is the dynamics of a vehicle being steered violently to avoid an accident.  But with Electronic Brake Force Distribution, the line pressure is varied to each wheel dependent on the load carried by that wheel so that s the weight of the vehicle moves around it's easier for the ABS to keep the wheels from locking up whilst the system maintains maximum braking force to each wheel regardless of how it's loaded or as the case may be, unloaded.

I could go on and on, as you well know.  But the fact is, whilst we enthusiasts may rue all this high tech gee whizzery, it is helping save a lot of lives.  In this country around 20 years ago, there were 1034 road deaths in the state of Victoria alone. Last year, with ten times the nunber of cars on the road, that nuber was only a few over three hundred, despite the fact that more and more people are caught exceeding the posted speed limits every day.  So yeah, the car makers may be numbing our driving pleasure with technology, but they are also helping keep more of us alive.  

I've always considered being alive a good thing, how about you?

[rumrumm]

I have a Detroit True-Trac rear end in my coupe, and so far I like it fine. It functions like an open rear end until you put power to it, and then it goes into a limited slip mode although it does not completely lock up. A locker would be better if I was drag racing it, but since I'm not, the Torsen-style rearend seemed like the best of both worlds. Time will tell.

[manyolkars]

The book, "All Corvettes are red" tells about how the computer is programed to apply the brakes in all conditions (such as one wheel in sand, one on ice, one on dry pavement, all this at one time).    The brake pedal is not connected to the brakes, it is only connected to the computer.  All I can think of, is how erratic computers sometimes are.   Somebody in a Corvette is gonna apply the brakes and get no or wrong results and somebody is gonna die.

[tomslik]

BUT!
the biggest problem with all this technology is people THINK that they're so safe, they drive like nothing can hurt them

most of the stuff that's SUPPOSED to make the car safer doesn't work.oh, sure, it works as designed but there's STILL the moron behind the wheel with the cellphone and fax and boom-boom stereos and dvd players,and on and on.

[Carps]

All I can think of, is how erratic computers sometimes are.  

Cars don't use desktop computers.

If you think about what's happening when your desktop or laptop crashes, it's usually linked to some kind of data input.

Computers used to control cars are sealed and there is no external input.  The proces is simply one of what is and what should be.  If what is, isn't, then the computer adjustst everything to become what should be.

I'm always amazed that people will climb aboard an aeroplane to fly thouands of miles at 30,000 feet without so much as blinking, yet the use of similar technology in cars is mentioned and all of a sudden it's cause for grave concern on the grounds of it being dangerous and unreliable.

Of course my experience may not mirror everybodies, but then I also understand why my company is in a different position market wise compared to others.   We call it QDR    

[Carps]

I don't believe they are numbing the driving pleasure.  I've recently experienced the most enjoyable new car i've driven in a long time and it's loaded with so much of this technology it's mind numbing.  And what made the car so much fun?  How the tecnology is calibrated.  Like anything new,, it takes a while to figure out some of the details and lots of this high tech stuff has previously been calibrated quite agressively, because that was required to make it owrk.  As more and more systems evolve, like active steering, then these other systems can be recalibrated to work with the new and deliver more driving pleasure rather than detract from it.  

Fact is the guys developing all this stuff are petrol heads just like us and their goal is not to dumb down driving or remove any pleasure, simply to make it safer and more enjoyable for everybody.   The challenge for me when driving a car with this type of thechnology, is to be able to belt it around a recetrack without activating any of the warning lights or buzzers, that is truly a measure of how well I am driving the car


And like it ot not, these systems are genuinely and measurably also helping keep more of us and our freinds alive.    If that's a bad thing, then maybe I'm in the wrong game.

BUT!
the biggest problem with all this technology is people THINK that they're so safe, they drive like nothing can hurt them

Research shows it's not the driving technology or active safety features that makes people believe they are safe, but all the mandated aibags and the promotion of passive safety features that do nothing until the car is involved in a crash.

Fact is, airbags are NOT the be all and end all of automotive safety, it's the systems that help the driver avoid a crash that are more valuable.  But the 'experts' in government think that airbags are good and thus they are mandated more and more, to help reduce the level of injury AFTER the car has crashed.  relates well to that old cliche about shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

And unlike the techology to help avoid a crash, the airbag is going to hurt you if you are not wearing a seatbelt or are not of the right physical stature to work with it.  

On the upside, we've just taken even that technology to another level, with the 'dolly Parton' airbag.  This unit is designed to encapsulate the face and minimise sideways movement of the 'victim's' head thus reducing further the risk of serious neck injury.  looking at it face on it looks like dolly Parton's finest popping out from the dash panel.  However, when viewed from above the windscreen, I renamed it the "kiss my *" airbag, for obvious reasons.

most of the stuff that's SUPPOSED to make the car safer doesn't work.oh, sure, it works as designed but there's STILL the moron behind the wheel with the cellphone and fax and boom-boom stereos and dvd players,and on and on.

That's why we are designing more equipment to compensate for these clowns, coz it's not themselves they usually hurt, it's other people like us.

The biggest single future safety device will be totally hands free integrated and voice activated communications systems, since most accidents these das feature a cell phone somewhere in the equation.

Unfortunately, the one thing we can't redesigne is the moron behind the wheel.  However, we can take him out of the eqation, by making the car drive itself.  Oh yeah, and if push comes to shove we can take him RIFGHT out of the eqution with the totally driverless car.  But again that's not something most of the people developing this stuff really want to see, but some day your elected leaders may just demand we do that, in order to protect us from ourselves.  Some of us will be ready.

As a footnote, if you think driving one of the latest techno cars is weird, you should try negotiating Tokyo traffic in a bus that's not fixed to rails or wires in the road, yet has NO DRIVER.

[jaybee]

Fact is, airbags are NOT the be all and end all of automotive safety, it's the systems that help the driver avoid a crash that are more valuable.  But the 'experts' in government think that airbags are good and thus they are mandated more and more, to help reduce the level of injury AFTER the car has crashed.  relates well to that old cliche about shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

Well put.  Just within the last couple of days I read a story about a program that's trying to teach young people to drive.  In the words of the group's founder "no one is actually taught how to drive in this country".  So true, we just get tested on basic operation of the controls and knowledge of traffic laws.  They're having trouble getting the program funded and expanded because insurance companies and state DOTs believe that teaching people how to drive well encourages the to drive recklessley.  Can't see the logic in that.

[Carps]

They're having trouble getting the program funded and expanded because insurance companies and state DOTs believe that teaching people how to drive well encourages the to drive recklessley.  Can't see the logic in that.

May I be so bold as to suggest the reason you can't see it, is because there is NO LOGIC in that attitude.

Teaching people to respect the machine is part one of any driver's ed program.

Once they have that respect, then you can teach them to drive.  Before they move to any advanced driving programs, they learn to keep the car under control.  Then they learn to anticipate and avoid getting mixed up in somebody else's accident, it's called defensive driving.

Then, those who enjoy driving may wish to move up a notch and learn some advanced techniques, y'know  the stuff.  Like how to react instinctively to the way the car is behaving in order to keep it on the blacktop and out of trouble.

The brainless gorms who are going to drive like idiots don't need any lessons, they make it up as they go, without any help from the government or insurance industry.  And they continue to cost us all millions of dollars in increased insurance premiums, because the insurance industry raises their fees to cover the unnesesary cost of repairing all the damage these fools leave in their path.

Any politician who believes that crap, is either naive or just straight up dumber than dogshyte and should not be elected for another term.

[C9]

In a word, Wow!

(And I don't use exclamation points often.)

A lot more to it than I thought.
Clear and concisely written as well.

It sounds like the cars will be a pleasure to drive as well as fun.

Looking at my main family vehicle - 2002 Ford F150 SuperCrew w/5 liter - it's a very nice pickup, but it would benefit considerably from the computerized handling package.

Many thanks for the extensive write-up.
Gonna print it out and let the girls read it.

They both have a touch of gearhead within, especially younger daughter - who used to drag race dad's 63 Chevy pickup for money, I found out many years later.
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree I guess and she grew up in a house that usually had one performance type vehicle available.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For those who've not heard of "Fly-by-Wire" systems, they are exactly as described.
There are no physical or hydraulic connections between a particular controlled device and the controlling device.
In the case of aircraft, the pilot inputs a command - up elevator for instance - the computer reads how fast and how far then signals hydraulic servo's in the tail to set the elevator where the pilot wishes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I didn't know that Corvette's had a "Fly-by-Wire" brake pedal setup.
I'm sure there are adequate backups, but still, it seems like there ought to be a mechanical connection in there somewhere.

Reason I say that is I keep thinking about the Airbus airliner with fly-by-wire controls.

I'm sure most of us have seen the video where it was introduced at the Paris Airshow several years back.
It did a flyby, the nose came up and it settled gently into the forest, tearing off treebranches and the like and eventually sunk out of sight.
Next thing you saw was a large cloud of black smoke blossoming up.

I, like many others. couldn't believe the pilot had screwed up that bad.
Keeping the plane above stall speed is so basic that if you don't learn that one you'll either be cashiered out of the flying corps or dead.

The pilot - and remainder of the crew I believe - survived and the pilot stated the plane did not respond to any control inputs.

An aviation writer commented at the time that France had so much money - many billions - tied up in the airliner that the cause would be pilot error regardless of what was found.

Either the Black-Box failed to record important information or the information was kept back.
Not sure exactly what went on here.

The recent Airbus crash at Toronto should come up with some interesting information on what happened.
Newspapers here as well as the electronic media are making a somewhat big deal out of the copilot was flying the plane.
Actually that's no big deal and very common.
These guys come up the line with a long background of training and flying behind them and for sure the Captain isn't going to let them get out of parameters for a particular maneuver let alone get the aircraft into a 'situation.'

One thing I note is the media isn't commenting much about the fact that the passengers report that cabin lights went out and smoke was smelled in the cabin area.
I believe the lights may have come back on or perhaps the emergency lights kicked on.
Probably the latter.

People on the freeway adjacent to the crash reported that lightning hit the plane when it was just off the runway.

Computers and lightning don't mix well.
I'm sure the aircraft builder shielded the computer and fly-by-wire cables quite well, but when you're dealing with the many million volts of a lightning strike no shielding in the world will protect from that.
Apply sufficient voltage and anything will conduct electricity.

Looking from here, it looks like lightning hit the plane, the main and backup computers failed, the plane settled in and simply rolled off the end of the runway.

My opinion anyway.

The great thing about the whole deal was that the emergency egress systems worked ok for the most part and everyone got off the plane.

If the lightning strike would have occured a couple hundred feet higher . . . well . . . I don't want to think about that.

I don't expect too many fly-by-wire braking system Corvettes to get hit by lightning, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of things keep the braking system from operating.

Not trying to highjack the post here, but I fear that we can go too far in turning all of the control over to a computer.

I doesn't sound like the cars Carps are describing are total fly-by-wire and I'm one who would prefer a mechanical/hydraulic connection between driver and brakes that could over-ride the computer in the event of computer problems.


I realize too that the military has been flying fly-by-wire fighters for some time and doing quite well.

Course, they have ejection seats which gives them an option in the event of control failure.
The rest of us are just along for the ride....

[Carps]

In a word, Wow!

What, you didn't think we were paying attention?  

I didn't know that Corvette's had a "Fly-by-Wire" brake pedal setup.

Jay, I think you might be surprised by who has what 'drive by wire systems'.

I'm sure there are adequate backups, but still, it seems like there ought to be a mechanical connection in there somewhere.

Pretty much every automotive DBW system has a mechanical back-up.  The brake pedal systems feature a pushrod, to operate the hydralic system in the  highly unlikely event of computer failure.  Most also use an accumulator to ensure there adequate vaccum for the system in the event of a mechanical failure.  DBW engine controls have been around for a number of years and most new cars use these systems nowadays.

The DBW steeing systems are mechanically linked the moment current is removed from an electromagnetic collar which when demagnetised locks into place at the open point of the steering column to provide steering when the ignition is turned off or in the event of a system failure.

Prius has had this feature for the last two generations and I don't beleive there's been a single report of problems.  The new Lexus models also feature it as well as the high end LandCruisers.

High tech is even used in our new transmissions which use peizo solenoids instead of hydraulic pressure to change gear ratios.  The solenoids can adjust the shift feel and speed much more smoothly and a lot quicker than hydralic pressure, which is why most people claim they can't feel these things shifting gear, even at WOT.  But when you want to drive em like a manual, you can bang em thru the box just like that old jalopy out in the shed.

Difficult to describe but these switches/solenoids use a series of wafers, and as each wafer receives currrent, the solenid is pushed futher out.  The same technology is used in the lates fuel injectors to provide incredibly fine, microscopic even, tuning of the fuel volume and injection timing, which ensure optimum performance from minimal fuel and of course lower tailpipe emissions.

Computers and lightning don't mix well.

In the car, the computers are isolated so as to minimise any risk of interference from such occirrances as well as to keep them free of unwanted moisture, etc.  Some car makers do it better than others, but as an interesting aside, we find that most computer problems are a result of inexxperienced or untrained machanics trying to fix something and shorting out a circuit or doing something to generate a current spike.  It's also amazing how many people will remove a computer module and try to tamper with it.

The Hybrid Synergy Drive softwar of prius is so valuable that the control module is designed to scramble the data inside if there is any attempt to tamper with it.  The lid on the inverter converter unit has an internal connector that the instant it is moved, the database is scrambled and if that happens, you are going to have to tow the car in and have all the expensive computer equipment replaced with new stuff.

I don't expect too many fly-by-wire braking system Corvettes to get hit by lightning, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of things keep the braking system from operating.

being fibreglass, that shouldn't quite be the problem it is in an aluminium aircraft body.  

Not trying to highjack the post here, but I fear that we can go too far in turning all of the control over to a computer.

Hey, you started it anyhow, so you can't be hijacking it.  

I doesn't sound like the cars Carps are describing are total fly-by-wire and I'm one who would prefer a mechanical/hydraulic connection between driver and brakes that could over-ride the computer in the event of computer problems.

The accellerator pedal is connected to the accellerator pedal position sensor module, likewise the brake pedal sensor read pedal pressure and even the way the pedal is pressed to determine if this is just normal braking or an emergency situation.

As for when the car applies it's own brakes to wash off speed, it's uncanny at first but like most things, once you become accustomed to it, it becomes normal.  Likewise when the car takes over steering itself, there's nothing you can do but keep the wheel pointed where you want the car to go and let the technology do it's job.

Course, they have ejection seats which gives them an option in the event of control failure.

There are automotive systems that turn on the hazard flashers and bring th car to a safe stop in the event the sensors determine the driver is no longer driving.  Of course this is after the systems have tried to get the drivers attention with a series of warnings from flashing lights to buzzers, even by vibrating the driver's seat, only when all that fails will it ovverride and stop the car.

The rest of us are just along for the ride....

And what a ride it is!  Some will go to the moon, others are doing different stuff but it's all exciting in it's own way.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

I am not tooo fond of the drive by wire stuff. When I mash the gas pedal I want the engine to respond to my input , not as the computer decides from sensor inputs.

Although with the current generation of computer hackers , they seem to  be able to over ride or alter most of OEM's programing parameters

[Carps]

I am not tooo fond of the drive by wire stuff. When I mash the gas pedal I want the engine to respond to my input ,

That's the deal, the engine does respond to your input, when you mash the pedal.

not as the computer decides from sensor inputs.

The computer decides what to tell the throttle control system based on what your foot does to the accellerator pedal.  I have no problems lighting the rear tyres on most DBW vehicles, and sustaining the tyre smoke.  And as it is with my old fashined cable to carb system, the volume and duration of the smoke is directly proportionate to the horsepressure generated by the engine, which has nothing to do with ECT or DBW systems.

Although with the current generation of computer hackers , they seem to  be able to over ride or alter most of OEM's programing parameters

It's not difficult, just remember the standard calibration is based around the driving ability of the average owner/driver, which is usually well below average.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

I am not tooo fond of the drive by wire stuff. When I mash the gas pedal I want the engine to respond to my input ,

That's the deal, the engine does respond to your input, when you mash the pedal.

not as the computer decides from sensor inputs.

The computer decides what to tell the throttle control system based on what your foot does to the accellerator pedal.  I have no problems lighting the rear tyres on most DBW vehicles, and sustaining the tyre smoke.  And as it is with my old fashined cable to carb system, the volume and duration of the smoke is directly proportionate to the horsepressure generated by the engine, which has nothing to do with ECT or DBW systems.

I have read the domestic vehicle computer  systems will detect parameters  ( rear tires spinning during a burn out) ... this will alert the 'abuse' section... then the throttle is rolled back via the computer controlled DBW system?

GM has used a torque management system for years on the near WOT shifts with automatic trannys.... killing all spark advance , reducing tranny main line pressure to soften shifts and save the poor durability trannys they build.

I am driving a rental GM trail blazer with DBW system.  I am not happy with the system as it acts on this one.   A bit mushy and delay'd response is noted... but then I am looking for a problem.

Thankfully we rented this inline 6 cylinder powered trailblazer for the drive to salt flats.... been thinking of a purchase of a 2006 SS Trailblazer.  The ergonomics suck of the console , shifter , cup holders. The console  shifter is in the way of most items. I am surprised I have not knocked the shifter out of " D " with my fore arm