More Legal System Fun & Games from Oz

[av8]

F1 racing may not get to police its own game down under.  Substantial "cost-reducing" rule changes have been implemented for the '05 season, and all teams other than Minardi have complied. Except for Ferrari, the other teams have signed a petition of sorts to allow the Minardis to run. Ferrari has taken a lot of heat from the talking heads on SPEED CHANNEL, most ardently by Bob Barsha whose understanding of motor racing is rivaled only by that of Elizabeth Taylor, plus much hand-wringing from others in the motor-racing press. 'Let the Minardis race,' they say, adding that they haven't the chance of a snowball in hxll of doing anything of consequence. 'Rules is rules,' says Ferrari, broadly characterized as being mean spirited for their stand.

Anyway, Minardis owner Stoddart decided to use another route to get into the contest . . .

Crash.Net Radio:-     
F1 - Stoddart uses legal route to get on track (04/03/2005)

Paul Stoddart may yet get his wish to race in front of his home crowd at this weekend's Australian Grand Prix, after a local state judge in Melbourne granted a temporary injunction allowing the two Minardis to compete.

Stoddart claims that his legal action in the state of Victoria has succeeded, and that his cars will be able to take part in practice and qualifying on Saturday. The news came in a press release, apparently issued by the team without consultation with the FIA, which read as follows:

"Mr Justice Hapersberger of the Supreme Court of the State of Victoria this afternoon granted an interim injunction to allow the Minardi F1 team to take part in the 2005 Australian Grand Prix practice and qualifying sessions on Saturday, March 5, with the cars in 2004 chassis and engine specification. A further hearing is scheduled for 1415 hrs on March 5, at which time the FIA, if it wishes, can appear and respond to the application."

By coincidence or otherwise, the second hearing takes place just after the end of qualifying.

Sources suggest that the unprecedented action has opened a can of worms and taken the Minardi eligibility affair into a whole new area which has not previously been explored. In effect, the Australian legal system is interfering with the sporting and technical regulations of F1. It could have serious implications in the future, and could even impact upon this weekend's event.

It could also prove extremely harmful for Stoddart and his team, who might no longer be able to count on the support of his rivals.

Stoddart took the action against the FIA stewards after they denied his attempt to run his cars in last year's spec, even if he had obtained the crucial missing signature from Jean Todt.

Senior FIA officials meanwhile had an emergency meeting with race organisers in downtown Melbourne on Friday night to discuss the implications of the legal ruling.

[Dave]

F1 racing may not get to police its own game down under.  Substantial "cost-reducing" rule changes have been implemented for the '05 season, and all teams other than Minardi have complied. Except for Ferrari, the other teams have signed a petition of sorts to allow the Minardis to run. Ferrari has taken a lot of heat from the talking heads on SPEED CHANNEL, most ardently by Bob Barsha whose understanding of motor racing is rivaled only by that of Elizabeth Taylor, plus much hand-wringing from others in the motor-racing press. 'Let the Minardis race,' they say, adding that they haven't the chance of a snowball in hxll of doing anything of consequence. 'Rules is rules,' says Ferrari, broadly characterized as being mean spirited for their stand.

Anyway, Minardis owner Stoddart decided to use another route to get into the contest . . .

Crash.Net Radio:-     
F1 - Stoddart uses legal route to get on track (04/03/2005)

Paul Stoddart may yet get his wish to race in front of his home crowd at this weekend's Australian Grand Prix, after a local state judge in Melbourne granted a temporary injunction allowing the two Minardis to compete.

Stoddart claims that his legal action in the state of Victoria has succeeded, and that his cars will be able to take part in practice and qualifying on Saturday. The news came in a press release, apparently issued by the team without consultation with the FIA, which read as follows:

"Mr Justice Hapersberger of the Supreme Court of the State of Victoria this afternoon granted an interim injunction to allow the Minardi F1 team to take part in the 2005 Australian Grand Prix practice and qualifying sessions on Saturday, March 5, with the cars in 2004 chassis and engine specification. A further hearing is scheduled for 1415 hrs on March 5, at which time the FIA, if it wishes, can appear and respond to the application."

By coincidence or otherwise, the second hearing takes place just after the end of qualifying.

Sources suggest that the unprecedented action has opened a can of worms and taken the Minardi eligibility affair into a whole new area which has not previously been explored. In effect, the Australian legal system is interfering with the sporting and technical regulations of F1. It could have serious implications in the future, and could even impact upon this weekend's event.

It could also prove extremely harmful for Stoddart and his team, who might no longer be able to count on the support of his rivals.

Stoddart took the action against the FIA stewards after they denied his attempt to run his cars in last year's spec, even if he had obtained the crucial missing signature from Jean Todt.

Senior FIA officials meanwhile had an emergency meeting with race organisers in downtown Melbourne on Friday night to discuss the implications of the legal ruling.

F1 is wierd stuff.... Give me irl  heck with cart and open wheel sprints midgets and super modifieds.... No fenders  easy to work on and one heck of a good show.... Oh ya make it a pavement race also..
Dave

[PeterR]

It is sad when the court system becomes involved in sport, and far from being unprecedented, anyone familiar with F1 racing will know this is just one of a string of legal incidents around the world to have plagued them.

As events such F1 move from a sport to a business enterprise it is inevitable the rules of business will begin to take over from the rules of sport, and this as clearly evidenced by the long running argument over ownership.

The fact that a Victorian court is involved is simply a consequence of the first race of the year being held in Melbourne, nothing to do with the Australian court system. Melbourne is a very strong supporter of F1, subsidising the event to an amount in excess of 10 million dollars per year and permitting team advertising activities prohibited by European countries, making this incident even more unfortunate.

No doubt there will be discussions well into the season whether this is a consequence of the owner of one team being too quick to embrace the new rules of business, or a team manager of another being too slow to exhibit traditional sportsmanship.

[Jimbob]

And further to this, At 4pm Australian time today (Saturday) the F1 governing body (don't know their name) issued a press release stating that if the laws in Australia allowed judges to over rule the governing body, international motorsport would no longer come to Australia!!!!!

Once again the Australian law at its best.

Cheers, Jimbob

[PeterR]

Yep, they said unless the world places their organisation above the law they will take their toys and go home.

[Carps]

Kind of ironic that Michael and his red car are currently sitting in the last grid position.

Also that ferrari are the only team other than Minardi to not have a new car on the track.  

Shame it's more about the money than the sport nowadays.

Could also get intersting since even tho Bernie may threaten to take the game elsewhere, there's also more than just Minardi unhappy about being pushed around by the governing organisation.  It's well known that more than half the teams are ready and willing to split and start their own F1 series, independent of Bernie.

[Crafty]

F1 is fast becoming a joke.
They are whining and moaning about making it cheaper and cutting costs, at the same time they make the regulations for the cars awkward. If you want to make it cheap then give them cheap mechanical grip - i.e. downforce and slicks. you enforce minimum downforce specs to keep speeds down, if thats not enough you fit restrictors on the air inlets to stunt engine power. It'd significantly cut the money spent on perfecting the aero on a car, which is the only place left to gain the advantage nowadays.

This infernal messing about with qualifying formats is also stupid. Go back to the old system, x2 1hr slots, max of 12 laps per session.

Max should go as he is in way over his depth. I'd like Brundle to take over, hes a very experienced race driver and also has a handle on the commercial aspects.

As for Bernie I'd love to see the look on his face if the GPWC do get their break away series, but I don't think it will happen, Bernie has too much money...

rant finished

[DrJ]

F1 became a joke pretty much as soon as it became more than a "tuned" stock car race, the better part of century ago.

Since I can get  close to two dozen TV stations over the airwaves broadcast I don't have cable, so I miss out on the cable-only sports stations and the $300.00+ annual cable bill.  
So, I don't follow F1 very closely, I'm afraid.
The only broadcast TV news that carries any F1 coverage is the Spanish speaking stations and they talk way too fast for me to get much of what they are saying. (I understand a little, but only if it's said slowly)

It sounds like they have instituted a "junk formula" and the Minardis are older cars that are from the "too expensive" formula and therefore might be too good/fast for the junk formula.
Am I reading and assuming what's left out of the story correctly?

With a "Boss" who "owns" the series and dictates rules, it doesn't sound like it's a sport anymore anyway.
It sounds like the old Roller Derby with all-professional "teams" all employed by the same promoter and they fought it out with each other for an exhibition season and it was anything goes as long as the Thunderbirds won the season...

They need a rule making body that is represented by each team making the rules or electing a new "boss" at regular intervals, otherwise it is just an entertainment business, and the underdog Menardi has a right to at least try to play the legal card.

If I was elected the "Boss" for an interval, I'd have a "junk formula" too.

Here it is;
All engines 2.2L or under with block and heads that are the same castings as a production car (1000 units or more produced) made by the racing/manufacturing company. Or an engine that meets that ruling even if the car isn't factory backed.
Superchargers allowed if the same exact spec unit is installed on all 1000 or more of those production cars.

No parts of the cars body can project farther outboard than the inside of a line draw between the inside of the tire sidewalls.
No par of the body other than a round cross section rollbar may project more than 2" above the driver's head not counting helmet.
No part of the body will be mounted on "cantilevers" or struts not integral with the body and no parts of the body will be capable of being adjustable during the race.
Cars will run DOT type tires with tread.
The same tires will be made commercially available to consumers in numbers of 1000 sets or more before and after being used in the race. (Don't have to have been sold, just actually available for sale to consumers at comparative market prices. in other words, an actual street tire.)
Tread width of the race car will be no wider than the tread width of the  production car that the qualifying engine comes from.

Formula 1, as I understood it when I first heard about it in the late 50's, was not only supposed to be a race, but a test bed for manufacturers to perfect their products, not just an entertainment spectacle.
WE have NASCAR for that,
(and with a race happening in Mexico, NASCAR has gone international!)

[Crafty]

DrJ,

The problem that minardi faced is quite simple, but first a bit of background...
10 years ago over the winter period the teams would design the car for the next year, often they were changing engine supplier or thought they could get a better aero package. Come the first race of the season everyone had a new car, some had done a fair bit of testing, but nevertheless would have the engineers working hard to learn the new car.
After Ayrton died in May '94 the FIA have changed the rules year on year to "reduce" the speed of the cars, most of the regulations are to do with size and placement of wings/spoilers etc in a bid to reduce downforce. The cars are also 20cm narrower than there were ( only 180cm now ) and of course slicks were banned.
So now over the winter the teams not only have to try and improve on last year but incorporate the new rule changes. With severely limited testing allowed this is a huge task, so what alot of teams do is change last years car ( that they know to be reliable ) to comply with the new regulations as well as build the new car. Actually the new car would of started much much earlier in the year than it used to, some teams like McLaren run a split development team, meaning half the engineers work on this years car while the other half are already working on the '06 car. If I remember rightly Ferrari didn't start using the '04 car until halfway through last season.
Because testing is massively restricted teams use expensive wind tunnels and simulation machines that "replay" previous races, putting stresses and strains on the car, exactly as a real race would
Minardi do not have their new car ready, they also havent been able to change last years car to conform to this years rules yet, hence all the court battles etc.

No-one is the boss of F1, Bernie Eccelstone runs the company that sells the TV rights to show the races, the money he gets from this is split between the teams, what some are not happy about is the way the money is split, the bigger teams get more money than the little guys. This agreement runs out in (I think) 2008. So rather than be bound by what Bernie says the GPWC (Grand Prix World Championship) was set up by Ferrari, BMW, Renault and Mercedes with a view to running a rival series to F1, some teams love the idea, some aren't sure and some hate it. Ferrari caused a stink by making a private deal with Bernie and signed a new agreement, effectively leaving the GPWC. The idea is that enough teams leave F1 for GPWC F1 becomes a laughing stock and is worthless to TV stations.

Whilst Bernie naturally has some input ( thats unoffical though ) he does not set the rules of the formula, the FIA do that.

Many think that Ferrari and the FIA are in cahoots, certainly there seem to be some things that Ferrari have gotten away with that other teams haven't.

Some of your ideas are interesting, but I don't think the teams would agree! The idea of Modern F1 is to be a ground for innovation and research into new technologies, rather than a proving ground for new products. Stuff like fly by wire throttle came from F1, the use of carbon fibre for vehicles was practically pioneered in F1. Electronic control systems were developed for F1. All this stuff eventually drips through to road cars - traction control/anti skid computers, my daily has fly by wire throttle.
Although Im not hugely "up" on indycar / champcar ( is it still called that? ) F1 is closer to those, except the cars are lighter, narrower and have far far better brakes ( drivers that swap between the series cant believe how well an F1 car stops to an indycar ).

20 years ago we had small displacement engines ( the BMW was 1.5litres ) running turbos that let them produce 1200hp in qualifying trim. Teams with money were using all sorts of exotic metals. The small teams couldn't afford turbos and all that went with them, so they were banned.
About 14/15 years ago we had active suspension cars ( the computer knew where the car was on the circuit and lowered itslef closer to the ground on the straights to gain aero advantage ( less drag ), then raised itself off the deck at corners to increase downforce. Gearboxes were semi automatic, so at the end of the straight the driver flicked a switch ( or paddle ) and the car would drop from 6th straight to 2nd gear for the corner without having to drop through the box. They also had traction control and automatic launch systems. Again the small teams couldn't afford it and they got banned for the ill fated '94 season ( it was also because Williams were in a position of total domanance, they had the best car by far and it was virtually uncatchable, kind of like Ferrari today, but even more so, they also had the best drivers of the time Prost/Mansell, they never could get hold of Senna until it was too late.. ).

And so it goes on, only there is no obvious culprit to ban this time, so they keep stealing downforce off the cars, I think next year they are dropping engine size to 2.4 litres, reducing downforce and god konws what else. Engine life is also being increased, this year each engine must last for two full weekends of racing ( if it fails in qualifying you get put at the back of the grid ).

[Carps]

Very well stated.

Interesting again this year is that Ferrari are running their 'old' car in Melbourne and likely for the first four or five events.

You are correct re Bernie, not owning the show or making the rules, but ask anybody in the know and they'll tell you it's definitely Bernie's circus.  On the other hand I don't think there's too may will disagree withh your comments re Max.

In regard to the new rules, the word in pit lane is that teams who don't appear to be able to finish in the points might simply, fail to finish.  Because any team who does not finish will be allowed to replace the engine for the next race with no penalty.

One thing that's always bugged me with most motorrsport, is the rules are always changed to slow the cars down.  Even in competitions like NASCAR and our own Aussie Taxi Cab race series. where the rules are designed to deliver some kind of parity to all teams, those with the biggest budget and who invest that wisely in development of the car and buying the best drivers, for some reason always seem to win.

There is no question that Michael Schumaker is the best F1 driver the world has so far seen, he operates his machine like a computer, never seems to tire and rarely makes a mistake.  Put the best driver in the best car and the reality is, nobody will beat him.  And once again the talk in pit lane is not about who will win the 2005 F! World Championship, but who will be second.  That's kind a scary, but it's reality even if ther are a couple of drivers who think they can beat him, most of that is for their own personal motivation.  His younger brother so desperately wants to be the one to do the job, which is why he acccepted the drive at Toyota, because whilst he knows it may take a while, he's in the team with the drive and funding to be able to do the job.

The silly thing, is that the constant rule changes designed to reduce the cost of racing, have the opposite effect as the teams all strive to find the edge within those new rules.  Like sure they now have a limited number of tyres but how much money has it taken to develop the tyre to do the job within the rules and will the tyre companies stop there?  Of course not, because thier customers are all looking for the edge.

Sure it's expensive to replace engines after each event, but what's the cost of making the same speed from an engine that is designed to last twice as long, compared to producing more of the same engine?  In the car factory, the more of the same engines we produce, the cheaper they become.  Maybe they should have a control engine, mas produce cheaply with rules that allow the chassis and aero gurus, along with the driver's, to build the winning edge into the cars.

Reality is, it all changes but it all stays the same.

Good news is, the competition is hot and yesterdays pratice and qualifying sessions saw some incredible performances.  I think this year will see some of the best 'competition' ever seen in Formula One.  Like who'da thunk last year that a toyota would be sitting on grid position 2, and Michael in the bump spot, with one qualifying session to go?

Enough from me for now, I've a race meeting to deal with.  

[PeterR]

The folly of all this is that while teams complain the costs are getting out of hand, they as individuals decide how much they are prepared to spend.

Their complaints are even more laughable in the light of this present stink which has come about because a low budget team has asked for concessions to allow them to stay in the game.

[HOTRODSRJ]

What's F1?

[34ford]

What's F1?

Think it's Formula 1 Racing Steve.



bob

[Carps]

What's F1?

Fast!  

[old32]

I know you have lost weight Carps but how the hell  did you fit in there?