Model A job

[idrivejunk]

Next up... upper door skin issues  









End of a day.    Around this time next week, I'll get going on the tornado damaged 67 F100 roof. I better hurry, huh?  :?:  :-}

[chris spokes]

you do good work Matt  

[idrivejunk]

Thank you Chris.    

[idrivejunk]

[idrivejunk]

Just getting started folding that. You see how the top edge of that right door skin looks wavy? Left side was that way also, maybe more so. I did not fret over it, just started tacking in the center and worked my way outward evenly. The skin could still float at the edges since they are not yet tacked to the skin. Note also that I am doing the butt weld with the door on the car and closed. That is on purpose. If done with the door horizontal on a stand, heat traveling upward goes into the lower skin which has less resistance to warpage than the upper skin since the body line is stamped right next to the edge. Add to that gravity, which can't pull a low spot in the weld while its hot because the panel is vertical... and I am having no drama with it.

[chimp koose]

I never would have thought about welding and warpage vs vertical or horizontal position and I have been welding for quite a few years . You learn something every day !Thanks , I think I need to experiment

[idrivejunk]

I never would have thought about welding and warpage vs vertical or horizontal position and I have been welding for quite a few years . You learn something every day !Thanks , I think I need to experiment

Glad you were able to get what I meant, I see where I called the shell the skin once.

I have seen guys really struggle with crowned old car door skin patchwork with them laying on a stand. The crown just won't stay while they weld the face of the metal because the backside stays cooler... because heat rises. Think about how you shrink a high spot but in reverse. Heating one side bends it. Welding with low heat so as not to burn through doesn't help. The vertical approach is a lesser evil becase heat wicks up the panel rather than staying concentrated at the crown of the weld or traveling out into the highest, unsupported area.

No idea why I stopped to explain but now am glad I did. Have not had an opportunity to skin many doors, those usually go to other guys. This is just an instinct that I happened to share. Like seeing a guy fighting high spots in the middle of a hood while its on a single parts stand, doing welds like this horizontal is something I have trouble walking past but everyone finds their own ways. Having the door on and shut also assures that the skin and shell have "floated" to their desired relative positions before tacking. After the long weld, then I'll open the door and tack skin edges to shell.

As I said, I'm not encountering big trouble yet. But, the left skin so far has tended to flatten out as I've welded, and I have been keeping a close eye on the lower skin's crown out in the center. Slapping farther out toward the perimeter and corners has helped to keep the gentle crown of the skin face that goes away somewhat after crimping the edges and so far the panel skin as a whole has nice tension going.

By the way, the doors are fairly heavy now. ALMOST like a Pontiac. I can't wait to thump one shut with all the stuff hung and weatherstrip and glass and all. Should feel like... a much newer car.    

Bob, enjoy the dots.

[idrivejunk]

CK, if you do an experiment I would like to hear what is learned from it. Feedback has become extremely rare and I forget people are watching. Let's learn together.

[chimp koose]

I need to replace the bottom 4" of the drivers door on my T. Before your post I would have surely welded it up with the door laying flat on the floor and possibly the edges already folded . Now I will do it with the door hung in place and the edges bent to 90 but not folded . To avoid warping I have kept a compressed air blow nozzle near by and blasted air to cool my spot welds . I just keep spot welding and skipping around in an organized pattern to keep from getting a warp . my spot welds show penetration through the back of the panel . Come to think of it the last panel I did was the drivers rear 1/4 panel  , the bottom 4" . I did that while the car was sitting upright like you are doing the door and I had no waves . The only issue I had with that repair is that the weld pulled slightly inward so that I have a horizontal inward dip along the weld . That dip should be easy to fix with a lick of bondo . Keep reporting the little stuff ! Its details like this that seem minor to you but can make a job way better for someone like me .  

[UGLY OLDS]

Hey Matt ....Remember ....We may not say anything, BUT....   We ARE watching youuuuuuuuuuuu........    ~:)  :b-d:

Bob....

[idrivejunk]

I need to replace the bottom 4" of the drivers door on my T. Before your post I would have surely welded it up with the door laying flat on the floor and possibly the edges already folded . Now I will do it with the door hung in place and the edges bent to 90 but not folded . To avoid warping I have kept a compressed air blow nozzle near by and blasted air to cool my spot welds . I just keep spot welding and skipping around in an organized pattern to keep from getting a warp . my spot welds show penetration through the back of the panel . Come to think of it the last panel I did was the drivers rear 1/4 panel  , the bottom 4" . I did that while the car was sitting upright like you are doing the door and I had no waves . The only issue I had with that repair is that the weld pulled slightly inward so that I have a horizontal inward dip along the weld . That dip should be easy to fix with a lick of bondo . Keep reporting the little stuff ! Its details like this that seem minor to you but can make a job way better for someone like me .  

Now this is wierd, hadn't thought about it but on the quarter patches on those two X-framed boats I just did, I left the plug weld row just screwed while I welded the butt at the top. You leave the skin flange not folded in, I folded first and let the top overlap until last. Hmm. Not sure why I do that. But, those long vertical panels with horizontal welds don't seem terribly troublesome. Maybe we've stumbled onto why hood patching always caves in. Maybe stand it up to weld?  

Good rodder thought fodder for pondering.

[idrivejunk]

Hey Matt ....Remember ....We may not say anything, BUT....   We ARE watching youuuuuuuuuuuu........    ~:)  :b-d:

Bob....

I should do a black and white episode now and then so's you-all would feel more at home.

   

I thought I saw the eyes move on that antique portrait.  :?  

Just for that, Bob... you get a story. Yer duuuurn tootin'! Yessireee, Bob!  

Thats my best Gabby Hayes.

Serious, I was watching my nightly dose of Hopalong, and California had found a dead man's note that his illiterate self couldn't read. Hoppy was sitting in the chair where the man was shot, trying to figure out how. Of course just in time, Hoppy takes the note to read it and it says "Watch the bull's head". A mounted bison head on the wall has wandering eyes and look out!!! A six-shooter hole, too! Kbang!



Watch out for them shifty-eye bull heads at the shop... Check.    :-}

[idrivejunk]

Heres the right door, edges folded and waiting for me to move the car and weld.



Before lunch, lookin good on the left door-



After lunch, open shop door and oh... body line. Consarn it. Half expected that. Later...



I'll do whatever has to be done to my fabbed quarter patches. Don't believe I want to mess with the door-



This was the worst looking pic-



These, I think, show that the plan worked. There was plenty of slapper work on it but right now this looks great to me.

[idrivejunk]

Only us over-the-hill guys showed up today so I didn't fuss with moving the car or setting the body on a dolly. Figured the time was right for digging into a cowl side. So among other little things, thats what I did.



Still taking shape but almost there... thats thick wall 1x2 tubing-



The prefab patch seems a little long, and it didn't have the reversed contour at the top. A little massaging and screwing then hell she's in the kitchen fixing me bacon. Hey...  Woops.  :oops: What I meant to say is the patch... she laid right down after a bit of man-handling.  :?  Oh, boy am I getting slideways here... better lift.      :0-0

You know what I mean... it got ticklish when my slapper came out. And all. Ahem. Anyhow yep, here she is. She said the extra length is OK as long as the stud still lines up with the slot. For the cowl molding! Sheesh.



Noble students of the writings of IDJ may recall from distant times... discussions of shortening the cowl by the amount the pillars were spread to flush doors. At the rusty bead, under the molding. So there will be cutting at the front edge of the patch, which is shown lossely in place. These will be good to have done when I get it on a dolly and attack firewall. By the way, I scooted the cowl back to tighten the door gap back up before securing it. I had left some breathing room while the door work was transpiring. I think its going to look good.

[idrivejunk]

Boy howdy, the cowl patch is putting up a bit of a fight.    Imagine that!    Metal is stamped pretty thin through here. Heres that brace with the other gusset in.



Having to grind and straighten between each pass of tacks is laborious but so far so good. To spread my patience around, I am tending to other stuff I can reach also. I'll make a close fitting end for the rocker, and the current plan calls for laying another piece over the interior side of the A pillar that butts up to the cowl skin edge. Stay tuned for that one, it will eliminate the washers under the striker while we're at it.



You can tell the amount of drama I am having by the number of stickers. The door skin looks way better I promise. I do try to be diligent about penetration. And at least scuffing the smoke off before pics.



As it sits now... I know I'll need to add material at the front of the door a little ways down from the body line but I figured that would turn out better than moving the bend on the skin.



Overall, I went around the whole door gap today tapping around to get the last of the flushness and gaps and I feel good about how its turning out.