Model A job

[kb426]

Concept vehicles follow a theme. The rest of us watch and see how it unfolds.

[idrivejunk]

I bet it takes full two years to have the custom interior done, based on what I've noticed. And costs as much as a new car.

Now is the time to freshen your drink and get more popcorn, I reckon.

[jaybee]

I've been saving money for a project, nothing big dollar, and have been scratching my head over several ways to go. I've decided that in terms of a Ford OHC engine the right direction is a 4v from one of the Lincoln SUVs. Obviously a Coyote would be better, but they're still quite pricey.

That's in the event of choosing a car that's too new to power with a 347 stroker or 351.

[idrivejunk]

I believe my patron has a huffed 4.6 in his fastback. 

I am a tad leery about these Coyotes, any of them up for grabs are from a frontal collision severe enough to give me pause. Guy putting these together is convinced Coyote is the big picture bang for the buck at this time. Seems to me that as swappable and wantable gas V8s for cars go... after what we have now, theres not going to be much of anything coming down the pipe.

[rumrumm]

I would take an LS over a Coyote any day for a lot of reasons, but die-hard Ford guys love them. And I respect that. They just don't fit in things that easily.

[idrivejunk]

I would take an LS over a Coyote any day for a lot of reasons, but die-hard Ford guys love them. And I respect that. They just don't fit in things that easily.

Evidently these Ford truck addicts I work with found a shoehorn that works. Make mine a carb era Chevy V8, in no matter what.

[jaybee]

I probably should have specified the 4.6 or 5.4L 4v is the right choice if you need a lower $$$ solution than a Coyote. That's the big problem...the Coyote is a lot of power...but for a lot of bucks, and you need a lot of cubic space to put it in.

Not that the older 4v engines do that much to solve the space problem.

[idrivejunk]

Blown 5.4 is whats in his daily driver. Thats one thing I have noticed is they all seem to require a supercharger. Not the engines, the owners. To address peer pressure. And so far, I believe we are at four Coyote swaps. '41 truck and '30 coupe are not a lot of cubic space. Whats required is cubic ingenuity. '51 truck swallows one easy and square Bronco swap is in the works.

The mod motors came with 4 speeds and Coyotes are 6, am I right? Size of trans is probably yet another consideration. Its a good thing I'm just a bodyman, see.

Thats my trouble... I have zero personal mechanical interest in anything drive by wire or powered by Ford so I just don't care enough to learn enough to converse intelligently on things of that era. My daily junk has the injection, blower, and four speed OD but the pedal is what opens the throttle. Its only missing two holes and turns the wrong wheels but thats where I choose to draw the line for advanced technology. It got the benefit of modern engine construction despite being largely a 1964 design.

Makes a point though. Its enough modern engine exposure that when I attempt to imagine a "hot rod" and take a hard look at originally carbed or EFI potential engines... they fall into two groups: Those which will run strong past three hundred thousand miles stock and them that won't. Carb era mills just don't hardly do that but everything from this century will.

Silly as it may be, a carbed and bigger than 4.8 / 5.3 LS might be my pick if I have to hammer interstate with it but I'll be ashamed to open the hood. Hood can be open anytime over a flat tappet or retro rollered SBC, BBC, SBF, or FE but it'll have to start fresh to make half those miles without losing oil.

So here I sit, running my mouth and done forgot which thread this is. Nothing can ever get a four barrel three speed '67-74 Pontiac V8 again and run with the pack as wire-driven late model $300 salvage heaps so I'm out. Attempting to wear out what I have completely so it makes better sense to scrap it all is my game.

Overdrive could be called a decider by itself though... whether a guy has to have it, or not. Just as the roller cam deal, you have to pick a side of the fence and live on it. OD and roller can be forced upon carb era stuff but costs more than just caving to DBW in the first place.

I'll never have the privelidge in life, of choosing an engine or even building one. At least I don't have to pick. Must be rough for them that do. I suspect that the same lack of perfect selections is just as problematic for Ford as GM.

How 'bout that? Done barked myself in a circle before noon on a Saturday but have said nothing and didn't even bite my tail very bad. Thats just how I roll.   Not gonna just backspace it all like usual though since its not terribly malignant. Enjoy

[jaybee]

It's all good, I enjoy the discussion.

The sticking point once you get much into the emissions era is that a lot of places have a rule that you can put a newer engine into the car but you can't use an older engine. A New Edge Mustang (1999-04) with a fuel injected, 393 stroker Windsor would be a great car and fun to drive, but It'll never pass inspection for emissions in those localities. You can do it up to a 1995 model, but after that you're into a cammer.

The OHC 2v and 3v Fords are seriously limited in breathing and cubic inches. They're so often supercharged because it's so hard to get around the limitations of the heads. If you can live with 325hp in the 2v and 375 in the 4v you're fine...and that's enough power to have a lot of fun. They also don't have the high revving nature you'd expect of an OHC engine, especially the 2v. If you want more you need a 4v.

Now we're down to which 4v. The Coyote is a better engine in every way. It's also more expensive than the earlier, 4.6L and 5.4L 4v engines. So, if you want to or have to go with an OHC and you don't have the significant amount of money for a Coyote swap the pre-Coyote 4v is your best bet. They go 300,000 or more when properly maintained, so freshen it up, get it tuned, and go. That freshening needs to include the cam tensioners and guides, and probably helicoil the spark plug holes for best results.

Oh, and as far as blowing them up with a supercharger, I think that comes from having unrealistic expectations. These are small displacement engines, so they're going to be harder to get big hp and torque from than a 6.2L LS. I think everyone's expectations are a little warped by the availability of 700 and even 800hp cars from the factories. Those would be uncontrollable beasts in a lot of situations without all the electronic nannies and drive by wire. Drives manage to wreck plenty of them even with tying one hand of the engine behind its back.

[idrivejunk]

Exactly. A guy sure ought to take his time finding out what a build like this acts and how to push it, gently. My definition of too much power is if you can't floor it in first without wheelspin. Says the guy who took a couple years to get the hang of gradual throttle app on the GTP rather than just romping a Q-jet and lettin er eat.

Interesting other points. Fun to talk about. All totally out of reach for this guy. But do the Fairmont.

The A is nervously pacing in the paint ward although theres a primer job birthing at the moment. Painter hasn't left her side though. Fussing up until the final moments. Somebody fetch clean linens and boil some water, that might have been a contraction just now. 

[chimp koose]

I still cant wait to see that thing in paint !

[jaybee]

I think there are some 1983-88 Thunderbirds still out there in decent shape. They were a comfortable car, not cheap when new, so they would have been taken care of and probably garaged. Someone who admired the already long and impressive history of the car would have thought of it as his pride and joy. That's the seller you're looking for, a guy who kept his pride and joy T Bird until way late in his life or it goes up for sale with his estate.

At the same time they're relatively small and light compared to the cars of today. Being a Fox body you can do everything to them you can do to a Fox body Mustang. A lot of the chassis parts which fit a Mustang either fit a T Bird or can be adapted without any difficulty. Upgrade that 5.0 or fill that bay with a 351W-based replacement. Convert to a 5 speed with donor parts from a Mustang.

Someplace there has to be a deal on one.

[idrivejunk]

Aw, hold out for a loaded Zephyr. 

That primer job was a barge, still waiting. 

I vaguely recall a couple test drives as a teen. One was a 318 2V (that V stuff is Ford-speak, I mean barrels)    Duster with 3 on floor. But there was also a Granada ... or was it a Monarch ... with four on the floor, 302 2V IIRC. Those had so much smoggo trim hung on em its tough to see past but the Fairmont, better. I'd place Volare / Aspen somewhere in between in looks. Wasn't there a different roof on some? Anyway yeah, me I'd prefer the Mercury in just about any case. They are worth the second glance where a similar Mustang ain't, IMO. A GF let me drive her 91 XR7 and if I'm not mistaken it was 302 5 speed. I accepted the offer to drive it and enjoyed it a smidge, nearly new.

Boss does have that T bird, its for sale or build. Can get pics if interested.

Thats every bit of Ford talk I got in me and after looking at those local cars ^^^ we drove an hour away to score a 68 Malibu 2D HT 307 / 3OTT , 75K for $800.

I been tellin painter to shoot that thing at least once a day, doing my part. Newer guy asked me other day, says don't it mess with your pride having somebody pick over your stuff for 2 or 3 weeks like that? Meaning Painter getting the A ready. I chuckled, and hated that I was the old crabby guy being asked that and having that reaction. All I could think of to say was were you confronted by my redoing of the truck's cab and doors? Nope. Well, alright then. We're not the painter and the painter isn't just a painter. He is the go-to man if you want to be sure about a show car, thats all. He'd keel over dead right now if we kept him spraying all day.

[kb426]

I agree with your statement on the painter.

[idrivejunk]

He is pressure washing the booth in preparation now.