Repairing A 41 Woodie door

[enjenjo]

I'm interested too, so I am creating a new topic

[kb426]

Good idea!

[enjenjo]

41 Woody

Just before Christmas the driver's door on the woodie finally reached a point where it would not latch at all.  After studying things for a couple of cups of hot cider I decided that the various finger joints, butt joints and rusted wood screws had reached a point of disrepair that I could no longer ignore.
Removed the door and found that all of the fasteners that pin the tenon joints had rusted to a point that they were completely loose in the holes causing all of the joints to be floppy loose.
I'm ordering stainless steel boat hardware, West System Epoxy, clamps etc to start the repairs but the first thing that has to happen is it get warm enough that the epoxy will cure properly.  I can heat the garage using portable propane heaters but I refuse to leave them running at night when I'm snug in my bed so I'll just have to sit in front of the fireplace and read until this cold snap is finally over.

[enjenjo]

KB426


41woodie, it would be nice if you would post pics of the repairs. There are some of us that don't know much about wood repairs and it be enlightening. Smile I have the intake off the 51 and I'm taking a break. Bending over the fenders is not great fun. Smile
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TEAM SMART

[enjenjo]

41 woody


kb426 wrote:
41woodie, it would be nice if you would post pics of the repairs. There are some of us that don't know much about wood repairs and it be enlightening. Smile I have the intake off the 51 and I'm taking a break. Bending over the fenders is not great fun. Smile


Can't imagine anyone would be interested but glad to do it. My supplies are arriving the first of the week and we're looking at a gradual warmup in temps so I'll be putting more time into it. So far I've been gluing up some broken pieces but I'll start taking photos to document the joys of owning a woodie.

[enjenjo]

41 woody together.

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kb426 wrote:
41woodie, it would be nice if you would post pics of the repairs. There are some of us that don't know much about wood repairs and it be enlightening. Smile I have the intake off the 51 and I'm taking a break. Bending over the fenders is not great fun. Smile


Well kb426 remember you asked for it. I'm still waiting for supplies to arrive next week but thought I'd post a few photos of the damaged areas I plan on repairing. The structural wood is Maple and hard as a rock except for where there is dry rot present. In those areas the wood is quite soft and pulpy.

I'm using Minwax Wood Hardener (no it won't help with your personal problem). According to their website the product soaks into side grain and works up end grain by capillary action and when cured returns most of the structural strength to the dried out wood. I don't know if I believe the hype but I can't see where it would hurt anything to try it.

The area I'm working on is the hinge post on the drivers door. The factory hardware had pretty much rusted away over the years and when I removed the remnants the joints simply pulled apart. I believe the factory used hide glue to make all of the finger and lap joints and 75 years of being pounded down the road has taken it's toll.

In the photos you can see that the finger joints have deteriorated badly but the broken pieces were still in place so I'm starting out by gluing everything back together. The tenon joints have dried out and shrunken badly so it will require a lot of West Marine Epoxy to renew these joints.

[enjenjo]

purplepickup


41woody, thanks for posting the pics of the wood restoration project you're getting into. I don't know how far you're going with this but I'm sure there are a few of us interested in following along. If you want, we could move your post to a separate new thread where you could post progress and issues that pop up. Things can get lost pretty quick in this "what are you doing today" thread. Regardless, I find it interesting. It's amazing the work some people have done restoring woodies.

By the way, I have used Minwax Wood Hardener and it does what it says. It can't perform miracles if the wood is really rotten but it does soak in and harden punky, dried out wood. You might want to experiment on some scrap wood to see how it absorbs the liquid. Once it hardens it won't absorb much more.
_________________
George

[enjenjo]

Gpster


'41 Woody, I'm watching your progress too. I've got a top bow in the convertible top of my JEEPSTER that was bowed backwards from time/weight of leaves from years of being in a field before I got it. I've checked around here to see if any Amish buggies might have a replacement but they all seem to be wider side-to-side. I am thinking if I could get something to add strength to the bow I could force it back into shape and treat it with some kind of epoxy so that it could retain that shape, Then I'd have to find some kind of filler to fill the tack strip where the canvas top was nailed to the top of the bow because the years in the field also rusted out the original tack-strip. With the JEEPSTER's top being chopped 2 1/2" and shortened about 6" trying to find a reproduction of an original part doesn't make sense to me and the top on this thing may end up being more like a Baja top with-out side curtains and a back window and I'm cheap enough to try to use what I have. GPster

[Arnold]

41 woody together.

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kb426 wrote:
41woodie, it would be nice if you would post pics of the repairs. There are some of us that don't know much about wood repairs and it be enlightening. Smile I have the intake off the 51 and I'm taking a break. Bending over the fenders is not great fun. Smile


Well kb426 remember you asked for it. I'm still waiting for supplies to arrive next week but thought I'd post a few photos of the damaged areas I plan on repairing. The structural wood is Maple and hard as a rock except for where there is dry rot present. In those areas the wood is quite soft and pulpy.

I'm using Minwax Wood Hardener (no it won't help with your personal problem). According to their website the product soaks into side grain and works up end grain by capillary action and when cured returns most of the structural strength to the dried out wood. I don't know if I believe the hype but I can't see where it would hurt anything to try it.

The area I'm working on is the hinge post on the drivers door. The factory hardware had pretty much rusted away over the years and when I removed the remnants the joints simply pulled apart. I believe the factory used hide glue to make all of the finger and lap joints and 75 years of being pounded down the road has taken it's toll.

In the photos you can see that the finger joints have deteriorated badly but the broken pieces were still in place so I'm starting out by gluing everything back together. The tenon joints have dried out and shrunken badly so it will require a lot of West Marine Epoxy to renew these joints.

 

  I have done a fair bit of this type of repair..with very good results. I have not tried epoxy. I have used good quality fiberglass resin..right from the distributor..not retail. I used whatever methods worked best in removing the rotted stuff. Sometimes boring holes..and further support holes. Dried everything out..then cleaned it all with lacquer thinner. Often having to find some way to "pump" it into wherever I had to get it to. When that was all dry and ready to go I mixed the resin with short strand fiberglass in as stiff a mix as I could to still be able to find a creative way to "pump" it into place. From there is was just basic resin and whatever thickening agent to make it barely able to "pump" in.
  I did a good size deck like the above..where the main posts were notched..as the thing was assembled  when it was first built When I was pretty much finished..just basic fiberglass work..I used talc as a filler mixed with the resin and sanded it all. I was surprised..and happy that it took the original Rez stain just perfect.
  Good Luck!

[41woodie]

Hi guys, I didn't realize that my project had become it's own topic but I'll start posting updates and photos and the work progresses.  Most of the supplies have arrived.  The West System Epoxy products come highly recommended from the Woodie crowd and since the product was actually designed for marine use it should be able to stand up to rain and road vibration as good or better than any other product.

I did some research on the interweb concerning wood hardeners and ran across a comparison of several products.  The test was for penetration and fiber consolidation and Minwax wood hardener was pretty close to the bottom of the list.  I ordered a product called RotFix which was the highest rated product and Amazon delivered it today as promised.

The weather is back in the high 20's with 30-50 mph wind so my problem with temperature in the garage is back.  I'm still gluing and piecing together broken parts of the finger joints and will post some shots of that tomorrow.

For anyone interested here is a link to the wood hardener comparison test information if anyone wants to see it.
http://www.ewoodcare.com/Epoxy%20Penetration%20Test.pdf

[41woodie]

Alright the mercury in the thermometer finally peeked out to see what it could see so I went back to work on the woodie door.  This post is really pretty basic.  On the interior side of the door there are screws around the perimeter that secure the plywood interior liner in place.

As these screws have been in and out countless times I decided to plug the screw holes with new wood for the screws to bite into.  First matter was buying new hardware, so I purchased new stainless steel wood screws and polished the heads.  The washers used on  Ford woodies are called cup washers, it's quite common to see owners use finish washers but they are incorrect as well as being larger and kind of ugly.  The cup washers provide a metal countersink contour and dress up the screw without being distracting.

I then moved on to repairing the screw holes.  Since the parent wood is maple and hard as a bat I thought it was a better idea to fill the holes with slender pieces of oak rather than the usual toothpicks and match sticks.  

I used a drill bit to clean out the holes then filled the holes with epoxy and inserted short pieces of oak.  These were allowed to cure then cut off even with the surface and the epoxy that squeezed out was cleaned up.

I'm sure that many of you have done this exact repair but for those that haven't, here it is.  If you look closely at the two photos you will see a small circular area of slightly lighter wood where the original holes have been repaired.

[kb426]

Looking good.

[41woodie]

Another day in the shop working on the hinge post.  I've had a couple of people suggest building a new door for the car but I will exhaust every effort to repair what is there. The wood is original and in addition to the cost of a new wood kit I don't want to take the car off the road for the time necessary to install new wood.

The post is made up of four different pieces glued together.  The joints have separated in several places, but I don't want to try to pry the pieces apart and risk damaging them.  In the areas where it can be done I've sanded the areas that will be reglued in an attempt to remove whatever residue remains of the old hide glue.

The photos show my effort to get glue into the open seams.  I found syringes with blunt needles on Amazon.  The first thing I learned it that you want to make sure that you purchase syringes that have "luer lock" tips.  This allows the needle to be threaded onto the syringe with a 1/2 twist.  Without the luer-lock feature the thick viscosity of epoxy or glue will cause the needle to "blow off" the syringe because of the pressure generated.  Trust me the mess it makes will convince you about finding the good syringes.

I'm drilling holes along the open seam.  Each hole has a 90 degree hole as well as two holes at opposite 45 degree angles.  So far this seems to work as the glue bubbles up in the adjoining holes since they intersect each other.  I'm using Titebond III glue as this seems to be one of the strongest pva type glues, is reasonably easy to use, and can be pushed through the needles I'm using without too much effort.  It's also waterproof since it seems like it automatically rains every time I open the garage door.  

I guess I won't find out if I'm doing anything wrong until the car is back on the road but hopefully these repairs will outlast me.

[Okiedokie]

Remind me to not follow you in June. Don't want to be digging wood chips out of my grill.

[41woodie]

Remind me to not follow you in June. Don't want to be digging wood chips out of my grill.

What makes you think that your worn out old coupe can keep up with us. I'm not walking down the interstate carrying another battery this time.