good gas availability

[idrivejunk]

The junk I drive is a 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. It has a ZZP 2.5" downpipe with no U-bend at the rear O2 sensor and a high flow cat. Aside from that and a low level (trans and fans only) tune on the computer, it's stock. It was manufactured with 93 octane in mind, and mercilessly retards the timing on anything less.

For the last fifteen years or so, 93 has been unobtainable in my area. I feed the car Shell 91 premium gas so theres no need for periodically buying injector cleaner. It works but the knock retard is a pity.

Today I find that the last nearby Shell dealer switched brands. I will have to go quite a distance to continue buying the same gas now, and the next nearest outlets are both in areas where tax is even more astronomical. We are talking half a dollar a gallon difference and I'm already buying the most expensive product because the engine is supercharged. It's the 3800 V6, an L67. Plain and plentiful cars but without good gas the fun is gone.

So talk to me, I need advice. There's a VP nearby, and a Sunoco where I treat my 455 to the occasional snort but it's several miles in a direction I never go. I also have a matching 1999 Grand Prix but it's a GT which only means no blower. Do I gotta start driving that and retire the GTP? That would be sad but I can do it. Help? Who has current scuttlebutt on gas quality? Am I yapping about something that doesn't matter? I floor it frequently!

:?:

[idrivejunk]

Oh boy, how did I manage to double post a new thread? Woops :oops: Can I blame touch screens?

If Frank or one of you can toss out the extra thread, I'd be obliged. If they are worded different, keep the newest please. Thanks!

[58 Yeoman]

I get my no-unleaded 91 (IIRC) at a local Phillips 66 station, and there is another 66 station in another direction selling it also.  But...a few weeks ago, my brothers neighbor who has an older Mercury Comet, told me that the local HyVee supermarket also sells 91 no-unleaded gas. I haven't been there, as it's not near me.

Good luck with finding the gas you need.

[enjenjo]

Most gasoline comes to your local station from the nearest bulk distributor. The additive package is dumped into the tanker and and the gasoline is dumped in on top of it. So for the most part different brands of 91 Octane fuel are the same outside of the additives. I would look for a large volume dealer to make sure the gasoline is fresh, and add a 5.25 oz bottle of STP fuel conditioner to each tank.  You buy a case of 12 from Amazon for about $31.

There are several Octane boosters that work. here is a review of them. https://best.offers.com/best-octane-boosters?path=zbe-33841-cog-100b1a&adposition=1t1&creative=213579393312&device=c&network=g&source=s&gclid=CjwKCAjw4KvPBRBeEiwAIqCB-cl6ungtYm8XjB6-qxrl89EhH5eka06fLAow7uTyZ9DfTWOPCBiY3RoCiuIQAvD_BwE

[kb426]

I agree with Frank. One of my friends used to be a delivery driver. After he told me about the additives and how they use the same tanker for all the grades including diesel, I only buy 87 at the pump. An additive in your control would be my suggestion also.

[idrivejunk]

Me adding anything to each tank is out, unfortunately. Especially stuff that has to be bought online to get a good price. I just want to buy gas good enough that I don't have to modify it. So what I am getting is that those days are already gone. Not what I want to hear but that's why I asked. The point about buying from a high volume seller is certainly valid, and to that I would add that being aware of the age of that seller's tanks is also a factor to watch. As is fueling during or shortly after a gas delivery. Here are some points that contribute to my princess and the pea syndrome...

In my late teens, early twenties, a family of kinfolk had a parts store and gas dealership. Being the auto curious young one that I was, I asked a lot of questions, watched closely, and have been aware of additive packages, seasonal alterations, and tankers ever since then. I liked to feel the tanker sloshing at a redlight.

Later last century, a close friend with a gigantic education recently graduated and went through a couple of jobs loosely automotive oriented. He helped design the thing that keeps minivan doors from slamming shut on a kid's arm for example. Another job involved forensic research as in detecting arson and being familiar with then current gas additive packages to the degree of being able to identify them from traces left after the fire. By a longshot, Texaco had the best most costly package. It was the best for use in your new GTP at that time.

Fast forward to now, around 60 thousand supercharged miles and a couple thousand GPF posts over several years... I have learned about the cars and their quirks. Any GTP has this one fluke in the tune... in high humidity theres an annoying bucking that can actually feel just like a common trans failure, which occurs when the load increases while in OD and locked up. Say you are going below 50 on cruise on a muggy morning when carb icing might occur and encounter a hill, thats when. That scenario happens with every gas except Shell now. Never adding anything. To avoid it with other brands, diligence with injector cleaner and / or boosting octane is required. Sure that's subject to speculation but it's proven fact to me, learned by experience and supported by other drivers of the same car nationwide.

I have put a few gallons of race gas in a couple times. While monitoring knock retard on the fly using an OBD2 Bluetooth adapter with an app on my tablet. That cuts KR roughly in half and makes you wonder how they got away with mass producing such a ferocious FWD car! The timing advance table is wicked aggressive but so is the retard. So my conclusion is that my suspicion has a foundation in truth... my GTP is as obsolete as a 1960s musclecar in it's original configuration without additives. I was hoping I could just change to 66 gas but have tried gas from all over town and nothing keeps it running consistently like the Shell has in recent years.

My Dad keeps the GT for me, drives it once in awhile. Bless his heart, he somehow cannot make a gas selection that isn't the button farthest to the left with the lowest price in town and with a discount. I never sank below mid grade even on that. Because "premium gas" by anyone's defenition, is better than rot gut 85 octane marked 87.

[kb426]

How about a meth injection hooked to full throttle like all the modern blown cars?

[idrivejunk]

How about a meth injection hooked to full throttle like all the modern blown cars?

That works but there again it adds a step. A friend with an intercooled Buick version that had been using washer fluid for that tried some "real meth" recently and that approach might be more interesting from a KR standpoint but still leaves me bucking up the humid hill. I think gas is like bearings now, quality is simply unavailable. Not trying to be difficult but do realize that I am. There may not be a good answer except dumping expensive bottles of snake oil in. Oh well, that era was fun while it lasted. I will probably just wipe the Shell requirement away and buy whatever dishwater is on my way. It's a sad way to go but that is life and aging.

[idrivejunk]

Another wordy point to ponder in my situation is this... theres a quarter million miles on the odometer but due to past wrecks I have a 135K engine to use when this one is done. So I signed up for the long haul on GTPs. I might have enough to last until I die but theres this gas issue. That deepens my concern about plans for future transportation. All this talk has me hungry for another snort of 98 octane and a cruise with stomps. :?

[kb426]

I drove 2 of those v6's years ago, a Buick GS and a gtp. The Buick was brand new and not impressive. The Pontiac was used with 20,000 miles on it. My wife and I went for a test drive. After a bit she said, "I couldn't own this, I wouldn't have a license in about 2 weeks". That one ran real nice.

[idrivejunk]

They are tempting as a kid's first car due to the price, but they can really startle you on a downshift and get a person in trouble. I cruised it last night, no fancy gas. A cool rainy front was getting close at the time, and the car seems to like that. Good air makes twice the seat of the pants difference with it as opposed to the 455 car but they both feel stronger in optimal ambient conditions.

The reason I don't want want to downgrade back to the GT I drove four years... is that oh so welcome part throttle grunt that makes the GTP exciting in a daily driver way. GM nailed the driving feel, it's so energetic rip-snorting around town. Still holds its own among the rampant speeders with turbo fours and what not, but at dirt price.

I am going to just go back to buying premium at Casey's. At least all the stores are new and they sell lots of gas. I bet I'll be back buying injector cleaner in a couple months though. The input was much appreciated guys, even if I sound snotty about it. Its just another example of the world not turning out as we had hoped... and sometimes being an automotive enthusiast, it seems as though any loophole I find and comfortably exist in is being systematically destroyed by powers beyond my control. "They" are picking the fun out of cars like I would pluck mushrooms off a pizza.

[UGLY OLDS]

This seems crazy & my memory is prolly shot & I'm getting something wrong .....Please correct me as needed ....( Well...Correct me on my thinking with gasoline anyway...  :oops: ) .....
I remember something back from the early days of junk gas where you could mix lower octane & higher octane fuel at the pump & the mix would have an even higher number than what was available.... :?:  :?  :?  

Was this a urban myth or am I remembering something wrong  :?:  It's been Sooooo long ago ... Longer than last month even I think...... :oops:

Bob...

[Rrumbler]

Bob, I think that is an urban, or maybe a suburban myth.  My son ran gas tankers here in Las Vegas off and on for years, and he told me they only had two grades of gasoline at the tank farm, 87 and 92, and when they loaded 89, they just programmed the mix into the load right at the pumps that loaded the trucks.  That is also where they put the additive packages into the mix; and that there were only four major brands that had dedicated storage for their own gasoline, Rebel had their own rack and farm, Chevron (had their own loading rack and tanks as well), Shell, and ARCO had dedicated tanks in the Kinder-Morgan farm; all the rest used the same stock and just added their own blends of additives when they loaded.  Kind of takes all of the "gee whiz" out of brand loyalty, doesn't it?

[UGLY OLDS]

WOW  :!:   Gas comes from a "Farm"  :?:   That's prolly why it is cheaper in Iowa ...  
Thank You for the explanation...  

 The Ugly car comes home TODAY   :!:  :!:  :!:

Bob...

[idrivejunk]

It's true about there only being so many pipelines and everybody starting with the same gas. There was a Gunsmoke about that lead into gold thing, infused porosity made dimes into dollars by turning a crank. Kinda like dumping corn squeezings into your coal oil. The grown gas thing is another conversation entirely but for now the sweet 'P has a bellyfull of gas we like and if I plan ahead I can still burn that. I put convenience store rot gut in the 69 yesterday, just going with the gas flow.