59 Catalina

[idrivejunk]

That there is some serious repair ! I have asked this before but here goes again , If I am going to glue in a windshield how deep do I make the recess for the glass and how high do I make the backstop edge ? I hope to be doing this over the winter .

The size would depend entirely on the molding. Whatever trim you use, the height of the backstop would have to be just right to make it look like you want. For mock ups sake I would say figure the adhesive bead to be a half inch high. An average muscle car glass bed is around 3/4" wide and 3/4" deep. This rubber seal type of setup has more like a half inch wide flange and the depth seems to be less than 3/4" also. Its going to require mock up to get your specific dimensions. The dogleg or joggle shape is made by doing the bend not all at once, and supporting one bend with a rod or tube under it while bending the other side the other way. That is done on a brake and usually requires finishing with the lineman pliers or a duck bill vise grip clamp. Or what have you. The bends are made by stretching the outer edge and / or shrinking the inner. With jaws made for that. What I do is always just to duplicate the existing so yours will require lots of mock up and measuring that I don't do when I'm replicating. But the flange width could be anywhere from a half inch to an inch.

[chimp koose]

thanks , I want to flush  mount the windshield in my T coupe . so 3/4 deep 3/4 high should do it ?

[idrivejunk]

thanks , I want to flush  mount the windshield in my T coupe . so 3/4 deep 3/4 high should do it ?

Sorry CK, I was probably not quite awake and didn't really get your question answered. I have never done what you are asking me how to do so bear that in mind and allow me to have a makeup pass here.

A- Assuming you wish to use a nearly flush 1990s style very flexible narrow rubber or vinyl molding, select and purchase that.

B- If no molding is desired, just glass almost butted to paint, skip step A plus some others below.

C- Determine height of compressed urethane adhesive bead. I have not researched this. I suggest measuring that thickness on oh, say five vehicles of any type but with bonded glass, add up those five thicknesses and divide by five to establish an average dimension.

OR contact a trusted installer and ask them what height they recommend.

OR see if the directions for the desired adhesive offer any hints or guidelines as to minimum / maximum bead height with glass installed.

OR run with my guesstimate of half an inch.

D- Find thickness of glass to be used. Or just measure any old windshield and keep it in mind as you pattern with cardboard.

E- I am assuming the glass will be flat, and that the finished bed will be in bare steel or coated with epoxy primer only. Also that the width is over four feet. Establish the glass shape and position on the body using cardboard or another panel of thin, rigid, flat material. Assure that your pattern is symmetrical before moving on. You should be able to fold it in the center and have matching edges.

F- Shear or cut a sufficient number of 1 1/2" wide strips of 18 gauge cold rolled steel sheet to have enough length to go around the perimeter of the glass pattern. The bonding surface can be wider than 3/4" but no skinnier than 1/2". Half inch is as small as I have seen work but thats too narrow for my liking. Depends how much gap will be around the glass, too. Let's go with 3/4" for the sake of this discussion and go forth.

E- Use a brake to bend all those to a 90 degree angle lengthwise, right down the center.

F- Bend those flange strips using shrinker jaws to make corners and curves so the strips hug the glass pattern's edge with no gap, but leave the strips long so they overlap at the ends. I suggest trying to make a bottom piece that stops short of the corners, then splitting the upper halves in the center. It would not matter if you made it in four pieces.

G- Once you can slide all your pieces together overlapped but tight against the glass pattern, determine the gap desired around that perimeter by eyeball and tape measure, sliding the flanges each equally away from the pattern. Once you have the gap you like or that the molding requires, create shims to hold your bent strips that consistant distance from the pattern. Now mark the overlaps on your strips and cut away excess then recheck fit against the shims.

H- Weld the flange sections together, butted at the ends. Grind welds, recheck pattern fit with shims centering it.

I- When you determined the approximate shape and position of the new glass on the old body with your pattern, you probably established the body's center line at the roof / cowl area. If not, do so now. Line car center up with pattern center.

J- Finalize glass position by establishing height now. Its centered, just move it to the desired height then double check for same height at bottom corners referencing the next available point down, like a body line or cowl side contour, or perhaps rocker bottom.

H- With final glass position established, outline the pattern on the body.

I- Chop just inside the outline, precisely.

J- Place 1/4" tape along the outside of the leading edge of the perimeter of the fabricated frame. Mark behind the tape and remove it.

OR- just  measure and put marks all round.

K- Place new frame into hole in body. It should fit right in, fairly snug. Set depth at line drawn in previous step. Cut away any interference on inner structure so it will go in. Tack frame to body if it won't stay put. Your glass bed is now at 3/4" wide and 1/2" deep but theres a quarter inch of frame sticking out of the body.

L- Using shims created for the gap around the glass, plus shims you create to simulate the bead height you have determined, set pattern into frame and eyeball everything. Honestly, this is kind of flexible because the glass will ultimately be at whatever height the bead is compressed to, but again lets go with a half inch for discussion. If the glass is upright, it's weight won't smush the bead further after you set it but you will need to create setting blocks to put under the bottom to avoid sagging on wet adhesive.

M- Cut glass to match pattern. Buy molding if using one. Get those two things in your hand.

N- Remove frame from body, set on bench. Using all previous shims plus another round of 1/4" shims over your bead height shims, lay the glass in it.

O- Cut a short length of the flush molding and try it out. Add or subtract shims until it looks like the molding will lay flat on the edge of the frame and glass at the same time. Check all around the perimeter.  

P- Once that looks good to you, note the thickness of shims required above our 1/2" bead height shims. Wipe off that old frame into body depth setting mark at 1/4" from the frame's outer perimeter and mark a new line at the height of your added shims.

Q- Remove glass and frame, set glass aside safely and trim frame on new line for a corner welded seam.

OR- Use a bead roller to radius that overhanging flange for a nice wide rounded edge around the opening. Create a flat lip all around which sits at the height of your new line. The frame could then be set into the body hole partially and traced around to establish a new, larger cut line on the body. Sink it in and butt weld it. This method also directs heat warpage onto the panel face which is easier to deal with than if a corner welded seam warps.

R- Very important- Lay the completed frame on a flat sheet of 18 gauge and trace inside the window opening. With this piece, patch the new bed to the existing inner structure. Plug welds are fine but use plenty. I like around 1 1/2" spacing for most things but you could have more around the window bed where inner and outer new panels meet. Resistance welding would be nice there, too.

That should make it close enough so that if as usual the molding attaches to the glass, when you press the glass onto the bead, you can fine tune the height of the glass off the bed with hand pressure. Mash until molding sits right and you are done.

[idrivejunk]

Dear Lord, I hope I got that right. Hope the steps make enough sense for the idea to come across. Basically set position, then adjust depth.

[kb426]

Matt, that sounds good to me. I would be nervous to use glass without a molding because of all the rocks on the road in my part of the world. The edge of glass is so fragile that I think the molding would provide some protection from breakage.

[idrivejunk]

Agreed, Bill. Thanx for helping by proofreading too. I would want the glass slightly less than flush also. So an unseen hanging limb or overgrown ditch weed strikes the pillar first. A molding also shades the adhesive a little.

[idrivejunk]

I believe step H has an issue. You would want to trace around the new frame, not the pattern.

[idrivejunk]

Pics! More pics, go see!

http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/10/catalina-repairs-r-qtr-part-1.html?m=1

[kb426]

I admire your patience! I have always been the "first to the finishline guy". There is a tremendous amount of repairs that just take as much time as it takes. As the level of quality of the cars has continued to climb, so has the amount of time necessary to accomplish that. Kudos my friend.

[idrivejunk]

Thank you much.   I am just excited to finally have a situation arise which offers an opportunity to explore metal shaping. These are baby steps but as the boss put it... "a milestone in your metal shaping career!" is represented in that pic. I thought it was just some fun days and enjoyed the task. Its a full flavored job that really satisfies. >

[chimp koose]

Thanks IDJ I will have to read this info a few times before it all sinks in . You are basically saying to figure out the shape of the window at about 1/2" short of each edge of the opening to allow for a molding strip around the glass? It is better to have the glass just shy of the body edge to protect the edges (had not even considered that , thanks !). Determine the glass thickness and compressed adhesive thickness and make a bed for the glass that deep or just slightly deeper (as a finished size ). I do not want to hijack a thread here so I will start a new one as my time for glass approaches . This is the stuff you could put in your book !

[idrivejunk]

After a few reads it might sink in, what I tried to explain. I just didn't feel like I had given a sufficient answer if saying yeah 3/4" x 3/4".  Once you make the frame and hole and mock it up with glass, you'll be able to set it up for the desired result. My mind often requires a tortured path to get anywhere but I get there. :?

Today I leveled the frame and body once more, and we decided on just how high the body can sit. There will have to be interruptions in the front pans no matter what. Mashed a finger in the process. But I got to looking at the rotted backs of the fins, and was prompted to pull up this pic-



Those triangles around the backup lights look cheesy to me. So I played with posterboard, tape, and paint. I figured we could ditch the chrome on the outer fin and cap the pointy points with something welded and even more pointy-er. To embrace the Pontiac pointyness. What do you say about that and making these orange blinkers with motorcycle lenses? Or just with orange bulbs. I assume they are backup lights, but that area houses too much visual drama to be just that. Reverse lights could be easily hidden.





Then I started on the left quarter and it's not as bad. There's a crease and wad of lead above my patch though. But no rust. The drop might only get a patch, too. I did already cut the quarter in this pic but it's tough to see. Fits fine.



It's a Pontiac world. Footloose shot primer on his Trans Am job today and is about to start some lighter work on this GTO.

[idrivejunk]

Updated pics again today-  http://chevroldsmobuiac.blogspot.com/2017/10/catalina-repairs-l-qtr-part-1.html?m=1

I got my 3 piece patch for the left quarter done and I think I'll just put a new bottom on the drop panel and bend the top flange backward like the other side. If so, I'll make the bead ends look like this on the other side.

[Carnut]

Humm, on the backup lights on my Chrysler I turned them into additional stop/taillights with red marker light lenses and stop/taillight sockets.

[idrivejunk]

... and your car looks absolutely wicked.   That would work too. They really ought to be flamethrowers though.