59 Catalina

kb426 · January 31, 2018, 08:36:58 PM

Matt, I looked at the beginning and didn't see who made the frame. Did I miss that or did you not say?

idrivejunk · January 31, 2018, 09:02:09 PM

Its a custom ordered for the Pontiac one of these:

https://artmorrison.com/59-64chev.php

I have explanatory images but don't know if I can find time to post em tonite. In order to center the column to the seat, no matter what bucket seat is used, the right rear corner of the seat HAS to be inside the frame rail, no amount of body lifting is enough. I'd really like to be armed with more input on my plan when I go in tomorrow so I'll try to post pics in case somebody has feedback. The deal is that I'll need to nip out a small area of the junction where the 3x4" middle rail sections meet the 2x4", and it is not recommended that we alter any of their welds. Since I am a former crash man fabbing his first floor, notching the frame is tough to swallow. But I am confident. I do wish this had been known (like maybe a footnote about bench only) before the "What kind of interior do you want?" happened but don't want to suggest backing up, nor does anyone else. I am duly apprehensive about proceeding without the actual seats but at the same time I know I have figured the maximum notch I'm willing to go with and believe it will be just enough, and that just about any seat will need same although these are fairly big. The right rear seat corner will have an upright stud on a heavy plate coming from the floor bracing tucked into the rail notch, and I figured 4" behind that for the seat corner to go back past the bolt.

kb426 · January 31, 2018, 09:51:16 PM

How big is "nip" ?

idrivejunk · January 31, 2018, 11:09:27 PM

Quote from: "kb426"How big is "nip" ?

Thanx for asking, I value your opinion.

See the bright tubing and big weld in this foreground? Body is lifted an inch or more in pic.

Go around to drivers side. This was my attempt to stay on top of the frsme but nowhere near enough headroom or rearward travel.

Look at that back corner of the front frame where it meets the middle part. Sharpie rectangle on top. The notch is wedge shaped, following the seat angle about 16" back at which point it will be half of the 4" rail height. So 16 long, two inches in, and two down but wedge shaped and closed up with that 3/16" thick angle stuff laying on the floor.

chimp koose · February 01, 2018, 12:19:19 AM

Is there enough room in the trans tunnel to run another 2x4 rail against the inside edge to replace the width of material removed from the outside from say 6" or so ahead and behind the incision ? As that narrow section( outside frame rail to outside frame rail ) of frame is bearing all the torsional twist of the drive line it probably needs the cross sectional area it currently has . This may require a reroute of exhaust . Might also be a good time for the client to be seated in the car for a fitting . Maybe he likes to sit with the seat leaned back more and problem avoided ?

chimp koose · February 01, 2018, 12:48:33 AM

I am looking at the seat and wondering if there is a way to move the seat tracks up , forward and inside the body of the seat ? Could the tracks also be re positioned to horizontal so the seat could slide forward and back without changing its height . I bought a set of seat sliders from speedway motors that were relatively thin that one might be able to do that with . I would want to see the actual seats that were going into the car before cutting into the frame . I have the luxury of being able to walk away from a project and mull it over for a while or attend to something else on it while I dream up a solution . I am not in a position that requires daily progress such as yours . I hope I am being helpful . I also hope I am not sounding at all critical of your situation as that is not my intent .

idrivejunk · February 01, 2018, 08:10:57 AM

Quote from: "chimp koose"Is there enough room in the trans tunnel to run another 2x4 rail against the inside edge to replace the width of material removed from the outside from say 6" or so ahead and behind the incision ? As that narrow section( outside frame rail to outside frame rail ) of frame is bearing all the torsional twist of the drive line it probably needs the cross sectional area it currently has . This may require a reroute of exhaust . Might also be a good time for the client to be seated in the car for a fitting . Maybe he likes to sit with the seat leaned back more and problem avoided ?

No room between the rails to add another rail. Exhaust is even going to be difficult with the chosen trans and frame. The seat conflict seems difficult to illustrate clearly. The center section of the frame is 3x4" tubing. The customer has only communicated via email and / or phone, none of us have met the person. But I agree he needs to sit in it... only I need a proper seat position to offer or theres nothing for him to try out. Any bucket seat (seat, not just bracket) has to enter the space occupied by the rail to be anywhere near centered to the column. I am of the same opinion about waiting to cut, BUT... a bench seat is the only way to avoid the notching, and ANY bucket seat will require the notch. So here we are, and your input is just fine, its what I'm looking for.

idrivejunk · February 01, 2018, 08:47:12 AM

Quote from: "chimp koose"I am looking at the seat and wondering if there is a way to move the seat tracks up , forward and inside the body of the seat ? Could the tracks also be re positioned to horizontal so the seat could slide forward and back without changing its height . I bought a set of seat sliders from speedway motors that were relatively thin that one might be able to do that with . I would want to see the actual seats that were going into the car before cutting into the frame . I have the luxury of being able to walk away from a project and mull it over for a while or attend to something else on it while I dream up a solution . I am not in a position that requires daily progress such as yours . I hope I am being helpful . I also hope I am not sounding at all critical of your situation as that is not my intent .

The seats are just leftovers we had, the only buckets on hand to try. And they are power. Any bucket seat will require the notch. The car's OE design relies heavily on a very reclined seating position and if the back of the seat is not down, your head touches the roof skin. I have a date with traffic now, must go sit in my blown Pontiac for an hour to get there, but I will re-re-emphasize the need for our actual seat choice to be on hand, and may move to another area to fill in during the indecision period.. But that would be a cop-out because this has to be solved to move forward. I very much appreciate your input and will check back in later. One of the challenges about this job is how new I am to using the authority I have earned and making responsible decisions. So far, so good but I wish I had been in the right spot to make frantic negative gestures when buckets and console came up in boss / owner conversation.

Neighbor dog barking is down this week, so chances of me taking a comment wrong here are lower.

I trust that you guys are with me. If you see bad stuff feel free to speak your mind and I won't freak. My main mental burden is of course cutting frame. But when you can see what I have in mind you may see that its not a terribly big deal. Just silly. And no wheelies or dirt roads in the car's future.

Anyone else have input? This situation will clarify itself eventually and I understand it may be tough to envision with the images I provided.

enjenjo · February 01, 2018, 11:42:24 AM

enjenjo · February 01, 2018, 12:07:06 PM

In my opinion notching the frame is the last thing to do.The strength of the frame depends on being able to transfer the loads from one end to the other. A notch would interrupt the flow of the forces, concentrating them at the notch, and breaking the frame there in no time at all, possibly in a few hundred miles.

The picture above is the right seat base, but it is a mirror of the left side. If you were to shorten the three rods that the motors control about 3" to move the inside track out that amount. And then bolt a strap to the seat where the base mounts, drilling the strap for the new inner seat track position, it seems to me all your problems would be solved.

The rods would need to be aligned carefully when you shorten them, but that is fairly easy. The inside half of the seat belt would have to get a new mount, but that would not be a big deal, and would save you a bit of room.

idrivejunk · February 01, 2018, 01:45:25 PM

The trouble is not that the inside track is out over the rail, it is that it also needs to be down. Changing side to side position is not an issue, its the height. The corner of any seat, not just track, has to occupy space that the rail does. Vertically and horizontally. Shuffling seat track width is no help... because if the seat can't also be tilted down in back, theres no headroom. I may not have fully got what you're saying, Frank. So I'll review that suggestion and thank you, sir. The boss stared at it a good while and reviewed the bench or bucket discussion then sent more communication asking for fresh input. So theres hope. But you know how it is, sometimes you gotta spook folks to get their attention. I am duly spooked by cutting frame but without mentioning it I wasn't getting much response.

GPster · February 01, 2018, 02:17:42 PM

Just to add a dumb suggestion ( I can always come up with them ). A right side seat mount on the left side and visa/versa also some SUVs ( '03 ranger too)have the seat adjustment latch on the front rather than the side. I'm fighting a similar problem with the Jeepster, different frame, no floor and the only seat I have to work with is an S10 truck seat. Oh to have a Model A. Frame that is straight on the top, bottom of the body sits on top of the frame,no tunnel in the floor, high roof, big windows. I'd probably have it "messed-up" in a short while. GPster

kb426 · February 01, 2018, 06:43:37 PM

I agree with Frank about the frame. That's too much to be modified to retain the integrity of the design. 2 thoughts: is there anyway to put seat tracks outside a seat as to allow it to sit as low as possible? No.2: Build a custom seat from sheet metal. Following kind of a lounge chair design that allows for the driver to lay back a far amount. I think it there was anyway to use a bench, I would be inclined to try that but I'm well aware that I'm possibly the worst person to add input because I tend to choose functionality over cool factor.

idrivejunk · February 01, 2018, 07:47:44 PM

Well I sure appreciate hearing you guys' thoughts on it.

I did not cut the frame.

I can't tell if one person I have talked to about it has understood the issue because the suggestions involve bracketing around the frame. That doesn't fly, the frame would need to be below the rockers for that to work. It did cross my mind to have a non-adjustable seat but thats no help either. If I put a Mustang seat in it and jam that against the frame, its still too far left. The pivot point and seat bottom cushion and bracket all would have to be in a frame notch. So I moved on, and am filling in the blanks up front around the trans. Went looking for the pieces I cut out and they had been thrown out like yesterday. That upset me a little. So it wasn't a woohoo day but did make some progress and avoided big mistakes for another day.

The green tape at bottom left was where I started the day trying to illustrate what I was telling about.

idrivejunk · February 01, 2018, 09:36:12 PM

Had a "shower thought"...

I should get out the original bench seat to separate fact from opinion, about headroom. I have the whole width of the seat mounting area saved in one piece stashed in a corner. Still, I hope.

If I were to place it all back in the original position, something could come to light. Why didn't I think of that before :?:

What an adventure this is! As far as work goes, its fairly thrilling.

Also made an observation today... never paid attention to the number of views on this thread

11K+ :!: Must count spambot hits :?