Project "let's clean out the garage"

[idrivejunk]

I do have a good bit of experience with 3M panel bonding adhesive although it has been years since I used it. My vote is unfortunately no, based on my own observations which include no failures. It is not for use on panels that open and close, nor is it for use in areas subject to heat, vibration, or any draft against the back side that I know of. Proper use is in conjunction with welding at ends or corners of the panel, and seams eligible for bonding are always buried under another panel, be it glass, plastic, or metal. Do I think it would hold? I have no reason to believe it would not but the finding out could be catastrophic. So because I like you I gotta advise against it. I think it would be usage out of context and could fail suddenly, long after the keeping an eye on it wears off.

The 33 coupe hood just has the chrome down the center and flanges on the halves of the top lock into the groove that is the back of the hood center molding. Hinges only at the sides. What if you were to make not-so removable but removable side panels and go with a front open hood top, or make a tongue and groove arrangement like the 33? Does the 32 have a hinge down the center? If it does, I reckon plug welding some flanges and changing to the hokey 33 setup could give you hinge free opening top halves, or you could merge the molding and top halves into a front open hood. But I am imagining stationary, or seperately removable, side panels with mating framework to form a jamb of sorts where they meet the hood top.

Are we on the same page? You know how I get when I don't have a clear mental image    and all you asked was about panel bond.  

[enjenjo]

This would be a place for countersunk squeeze rivets. In conjunction with panel bonder it will never come apart. Stainless steel hinge with brass pins should be the one to use.

[WZ JUNK]

I have bought stainless steel piano hinge at the Yard Store aircraft salvage at Wichita, Ks in the past.  http://www.yardstore.com/    It is not expensive.  

John

[kb426]

John, it's been years since I was at the Yardstore. I see they now have a website for tools. One of the reasons I mentioned using the 32 style setup is it is kind of weathertite as far as where moisture can pass through. If this doesn't sell and I end up driving it, I want to be able to withstand the occasional rain storm that happens. I haven't got the firewall sealed up yet around the main harness entry. I'm waiting for a really good idea to occur. I'm still daydreaming about side panels also. I'm going to mock up with CAD design when it warms up a bit in a couple of days.

[WZ JUNK]

George's Purplepickup had a tray under the louvered hood to catch the water and divert it away from the carburetor and engine.  Hooley had a hinge leak on a Model A once.  The water ran into the air cleaner, the carb, and then the engine.  It hydrauliced the engine when he started it after a rain storm at NSRA Louisville.  He drove it home to Oklahoma with a bent rod hammering away.  He says that when it got louder, he turned the radio up more.

John

[kb426]

^^^^
Hooley was very lucky with his misfortune.

[idrivejunk]

OK reckon I would require more study on hinge styles. Sounds like Frank has tried bonding with rivets before though. KB I know you'll cook up something sensible.

About the yard store... hmm... that would be the same one my anvil probably came from, and the aluminum stuff Grandpa built boats with? Cool.

[idrivejunk]

I looked at some pictures of 32 truck hoods and oh, OK. Don't know why the 33 hood I messed with is made like it is, and I'm fairly certain that I am thoroughly confused so I drew what popped into my head considering your concerns. Beats wordy 'splanations and would allow rivets plus divert rain to a drain. Just waving a brain fart in your direction in case theres anything to it. I know everything has been thought of before but I think wierd so ya never know.

[kb426]

That would be very effective , Matt. By bending the 90 you would stiffen the hood panel so you could use a lighter hinge if needed. I'm going to play with the cad in the next 2 days and do some design's to see if anything will have good flow instead of just being effective. Thank you for your thoughts.

[kb426]

More progress.

[kb426]

I have returned from giving the insurance agent money, the state of Kansas money and now have a tag. Being honest about the cost to build does make the sales tax more than pocket change.

[chimp koose]

weird question about the taxes on the cost of the build , since you made it yourself , didn't you already pay taxes on all the materials you used to build it with ? Seems about as fair as taxing you nightly on the supper your wife prepares ?

[kb426]

C.K., that's a really good question. I had paid taxes on about 5% of the items. The clerk was about to start adding up the few large items which would have been less that 1 grand total and I stopped her. I handed her a copy of my spreadsheet with almost every penny spent on this listed. This also included all the used parts that were used with an assessed value that I had placed on them. The total was circled. She sad: "ok, great". She punched it in the state's program, it spit out the total and that was it. This was way more simple that it used to be. There was no confrontation, no discussion, just all a matter of fact. I'd like to tell you that everything went smoothly because I was well prepared but the trooper made sure I was prepared before he got here. The new insurance agent did well even though she had never wrote one of these before. I did answer some questions for her but nothing excessive. The state's new software was far better than the last time I went through this. So maybe I just got lucky.

[idrivejunk]

I think you just had your ducks in a row. Nice going on the legalities.

The flow in that drawing goes down the gutter.  You could do the same thing without the spacer but with a single vertical flange in the gutter instead. I just didn't know if you already have a hood or what, nor whether the rear width of what you plan to use matches the cowl at all.

There were thoughts of other non traditional options, from which I'll spare you.      

But I wondered if you could lop off the front of a hood from something more like what goes with the cab... if by chance it would follow the top of the grille shell.

Then I re-traced my statements about bonding and your sparse talk of hood stuff and theres a loophole I think. Bear with me...

Simply put- You have my blessing to bond away if you put five or six welds on each side. Allow me to explain.

The concern when panel bonding on new junk is to assure that the ends and or corners do not get ripped loose from an oblique angle collision. Roof skins should get a couple plug welds at each corner but the rest can be bonded.Your hood would crash just fine done that way, heaven forbid.

So if we forget engine heat and vibration potentially weakening the bond over time, and can pull off a handful of small welds, I think its a go. The nicest way I can think of to do this would be to bond the whole hinge flange except for enough HAZ to fit two welds at each end and one in the middle. Clamp those with some bar stock under both sides for even pressure and dimple avoidance, then immediately make the welds. If you have access to a resistance welder, this would be the time to use that although I know you can do it with TIG or me with MIG. You could possibly stuff more panel bond in around the welds once cool, just to seal those areas.

If you added a strip with a large bead rolled at the edge to the bottom of one side, as a sort of drip rail, that could possibly provide additional rain protection.

Last but not least... I don't think like a real welder but I gotta wonder if you were to drill the hinge flange for plug welds and work from the backside of the hood skin, but sandwich the hood right up against the hinge flange with well clamped sticks of 1" square tubing, could that contol warpage enough to make it worth a shot with all welds? It sure would form a heat dam. Again, just thoughts because ideas are fun. I would weld it without batting an eye, but bonding might resist corrosion and seal better. And again, back pats for legalizing the truck. I am still awestruck by your accomplishment here!

[enjenjo]

Sounds like Frank has tried bonding with rivets before though.

I have fixed more than one class 8 truck hood with panel bond, plywood, and big head pop rivets.