Jeepster hitting but not running

[wayne petty]

86 to 89 model 700 single injector throttle body blow up diagram and parts list..   if you click on the images when the pages below load. it will send a PDF of that page to your computer ..

http://gmpartswiki.com/getpage?pageid=106826

http://gmpartswiki.com/getpage?pageid=106827


PS...

OHM the injector. . i can get you specs.. but its probably in the manual..

you can use several ways to see if the injector is pulsing..  hook a test light to Positive.. like on the output stud of the alternator.. or positive battery terminal..

i don't recall off hand.. but one wire turns on with the key... the other is pulsed negative by the computer.. so you can use a conventional test light

in total despreration.. find a turn signal marker bulb socket.. stuff the wires in the end of the injector pigtail connector and have somebody crank the engine.. see if the bulb flashes.

sorry i have not been around as much as i should. .

i just recalled that my email is going to an account i cannot get into as i forgot the password..

[58 Yeoman]

Wayne, I know what you mean about passwords. My wife and I have them all written down in a small notebook, with our usernames for everything that needs a username and password.

[UGLY OLDS]

Wayne, I know what you mean about passwords. My wife and I have them all written down in a small notebook, with our usernames for everything that needs a username and password.

Now where did we put that DAM& notebook  :?:  :?:  :?:  :x    

Bob....

[GPster]

Spent the day with my wife going shopping,driving a "loaner"car while our Jeep dealer performed the recall for the "Park" on the shifter. I didn't listen very well because I barely drive the thing but it involves opening the driver's door if the vehicle isn't in park. When we got back in town I went and picked up my "O" rings and it actually is a filter screen kit so the $7.00 doesn't seem so pricey for the two ")" rings. Shopping seems very tiring so this might be all the news of the day. Wayne, I've already tried the test light trick but it didn't show anything. My confidence while doing it was lacking. The diagnosis that has the last step of condeming the ECM involves multiple steps and as a pesimist, feeling that that's where it will go I'd like a little more confidence in the outcome. GPster

[wayne petty]

chart A-3 digital page 50 , 51  printed page 3-20, 3-21

chart A-4 digital page 54 , 55. printed page  3-24. 3-25.

i am expecting that you have fuel  pump operation.. chart A-5 digital page 58, 59. printed page 3-28, 3-29.


that you have fuel pressure... chart A-6   digital page 64, 65 printed page 3-34, 3-35.


that you have performed the crank signal diagnosis.. on digital page 108, 109. printed page 3-78, 3-79.


i know i ask you to print digital page 135, printed page 3-105... did you print several of these and write the actual measured voltages down on the page..

how the system works starts on page 149   page 4-1 or 4-2...  pay close attention to page 4-2...

i am taking for granted that when you turn the key on.. you have power at the injector... and at the ignition coil positive...

the injector gets positive power.. the computer pulls it to ground in millisecond pulses to get it to spray..

[enjenjo]

What are you using for an ignition switch? In that era on GM cars you had to have two power wires to the computer, one for run, and one for the cranking position.

[GPster]

What are you using for an ignition switch? In that era on GM cars you had to have two power wires to the computer, one for run, and one for the cranking position.

I am using the ignition switch that came with the vehilcle. I did change the steering column but used the swicth that came with the harness from the original vehicle just to cut down the chance for any problems. This vehicle has a distributo so there is no sensor on the crank but there is what is called a "Crank" fuse and it is powered by the pink wire off the ignition switch that goes to the starter solenoid. There is a red wire coming off the power side off the alternator and it goes to the junction block and follows to the battery. there are other wires off the junction block but their destination is the ignition switch and the light circuit.there is a wire that is no longer hooked up and I'll trace it but there is confusionbecause there were red wires and red with a white tracer that is not even listed and it's the one that is powered by the battery to the ignition switch and is worked the starter,  fuel pump and ignition (it ran on prime) and the fuel pump circuit. There was a circuit off the alternator that was labled 2.8L only and from my working wiring diagram I might have lost part of it. The wiring diagram of the ignition switch is just dots that says which circuits are powered in which switch position. With the fact that it ran on prime I thought that that much was ok and I guess I have been checking backwards looking for the problem.  All I get from other service manuals is just wire numbers going into the harness and with the wire color/tracer being different than what the wire numbers and wiring diagrams show (and this harness was not cut into and spliced) a hint like yours will have to be  visually checked . The ignition switch with bigger wires will be easier to see though. I'll go back to the original wiring diagram and see if I deleted something wrong. Thanks for that hint. GPster

[wayne petty]

crank fuse should be on the purple wire from the S terminal.

click here for a image http://i.imgur.com/rgoE3Nn.jpg

if you don't have a printed copy of the pages you need.. i will have some cash tueday.. and there is a fedex copy store a few blocks away.. i could print out the pages you need and snail mail them to you..

[GPster]

crank fuse should be on the purple wire from the S terminal. click here for a image http://i.imgur.com/rgoE3Nn.jpg
if you don't have a printed copy of the pages you need.. i will have some cash tueday.. and there is a fedex copy store a few blocks away.. i could print out the pages you need and snail mail them to you..

Watne,thanks for that last picture . It is as simple (as I am) as I hoped to make the wiring diagram and knowing the colors and terminal positions will help me trace the wires and know which wires shouldbe 12V with the key off that B2 and  B3 might be possibllities particularly with the label for A/C. I would have  disregarded a connection for that accessary and the complcated heater fan circuit was also eliminated. The fact that there are three red connections may explain the red/off-red/ red white confusion. Particularly for someone that can't remember where he traced the pink or purple wires to.  I'll let you know if I need copies of those pages but don't put the books back in that VW van yet.You originally pointed me to the site to get the factory wiring diagrams. I haven't thrown them away but it's been years since I've gone back as far as the originals hunting for my mistakes. GPster

[wayne petty]

B1 and B2 are actually joined in most ignition switches.. that is 10 gauge power directly from a 14 gauge fusible link from the battery on most..

B3 is almost always separate... and is a 10 gauge with usually a 14 or 16 gauge fusible link.. also from the battery..

the reason that B3 is separated.. if it shorts out.. only the heater and AC quit.. the engine continues to run..  B3 ONLY FEEDS I3.. nothing else..  B3 also has a 5/16 width terminal. where all the others are 1/4" wide..

i hope to point out.. that the connector view is the face of the connector as it plugs into the switch..  that is why its a vertical mirror image.

i added a modified by me wiring diagram for the 87 S10 2.5 iron duke 2.5L

i did not draw the original.. they got somethings WRONG.. i tried to correct it..

http://i.imgur.com/jdfMOaB.jpg

[GPster]

My coffee was getting cold and my wife and the dog where waiting for me on the back porch. I hope that explains the poor speeling and sentence formation. GPster

[wayne petty]

My coffee was getting cold and my wife and the dog where waiting for me on the back porch. I hope that explains the poor speeling and sentence formation. GPster

i gest don't care anymore.. if its speeled wrong. .so be it


context... beyond correctness..

[GPster]

Well with Frank's and Wayne's hints the job proceedes but I'm not sure where . The second big wire off the junction block bore a resemblence to Wayne's description of the A/C wiring . Even though the truck didn't have A/C the blower motor and speed controls was so complicated that I thought that that whole circuit mess could just be left hanging and removed later. I was even more convinced of that fact when I got to the ignition switch and the A/C terminals indicated in the picture were as displayed. But I couldn't prove continuity with that wire at the switch (finding later that it must have been my lack of one hand,one eye co-ordination). I put that wire on the 12V positive side of the battery and behold I got power to B3 on the switch. Also got power to the head light switch and the power that I had to jumper before to the ECM 1 fuse was now there. That wire was the un-switched HOT wire from the battery and somewhere at the jumble of wires going through the firewall it must have that red B3 wire to the ignition switch tied into it. Of course that mess is also where the red/white wire turns back into plain red and goes to B2 on the ignition swich. I went back to the original factory wiring diagram and looked. I couldnt see any way that it shows that this would happen. Well now I know where I can find a switched/fused wir for my little defrost fan for the fog I'll get on the back of the windshield. Well I've got more power goimg somewhere but I didn't try it because I still haven't changed the "O" rings on the injector or checked the ignition module. Maybe, GPster

[wayne petty]

check email.

you have to have constant power to the B1, and or B2 and a separate power wire to B3 connections on the ignition switch..


i marked up an 82 wiring diagram i have for the S10 to show the power circuits.. its kinda complex.. i know you have an 87.. the 86 manual has a multi page fold out that makes it a pain to do anything with..


there are 2 fusible links coming off the top post of the starter solenoid..

one goes to the alternator output stud.. but continues to the bulk head connector.  under the dashboard to where it splits again.. goes to BAT 2 and BAT 3 on the ignition switch..

it also makes a branch off  where it split off to go to the STOP/HAZARD fuse... so that should have constant power.. it also goes to the ACC POWER circuit breaker.


the other fusible link on the starter goes on 82 models to the #2 terminal on the side of the 10SI alternator. i don't think it goes to the alternator plug on 87 ..  this circuit continues thru the bulk head connector..  it branches off to the Courtesy/Tail light fuse and also the Beam/Horn fuse..  but is mainly going right to the headlight switch..

this is actually how almost all GM cars are wired.. the engine wiring for the engine and most other things is separate from the power wiring to the lighting ..

[GPster]

Wayne, this makes more sense now than it did at 3:30 EST. I had tried to clean up some of the wiring down around the starter so I had used the junction block as a point that tied the red wires together. The alternator wire, extra battery wire, and the one (now two) wires with fuse links together to get them secure and away from water (no inner fenders). I've not finished the wiring for the things that I didn't feel were essential to the motor wiring which is one of the reasons that I hadn't noticed that my hot all the time circuits for the head lights wasn't powered. My hazzard lights we delt as even less important and the acc. relay and door and seat belt buzzers too.  I unfortunately was fooled by statements that it was easy to make computor controled engines start in a junk car and that fact that it started and ran gave me a false sense of accomplishment. My wife will attest to the fact that I'm over-whelmed and sometimes I can't even venture out a little sense of accomplishment. GPster