Jeepster hitting but not running

[GPster]

Well I've been taking small steps towards getting the engine running in the Jeepster. It hasn't run since I drove the donor vehicle ('87 GMC S15 2.5L) out of the junk yard onto a trailer and off the trailer to park it in my yard Five (?) years ago.I pulled the spark plugs out yesterday and was pleased when I didn't have any shorts when I hooked the battery up to my revised wiring harness and even more pleased when turning the ignition key engaged the starter and the engine rolled freely with the spark plugs out. I thought I shouldn't press my luck so that's as far as I ventured with it yesterday. This afternoon I put the plugs back in , put coolant in the radiator, put a little gas in the TBI and tried to start it. It fired on the prime so I know there is ignition but no fuel. I couldn't hear the tank fuel pump run so I made sure the wires were connected and found that I hadn't hooked up the tank's ground wire. Tried fastening it to the body's floor brace and still got nothing. Ran a wire to the battery.s negative (and did something that I think fried the alternator) but still couldn't get the pump to run. Maybe it's the pump relay but it worked five years ago. The short run of the engine on prime threw of the fan belt ( or maybe the alternator was trying to motor when I burned it up) But the fan belt diagram is up in the trusses of my garage with the radiator and it's to late in the day for me to trust my luck on a ladder and this day has probably already cost me an alternator so it's time for me to just sit in the cool house and look at my wiring diagrams. It's still a long way from driving but with it up on jack stands maybe with the engine running I can watch the driveshaft turn. GPster

[GPster]

Well last night I checked out the wiring diagram. Questioned the ground for the fuel pump relay. The ground wire goes into the wiring harness but checking from the ground wire contact at the relay to body ground shows continuity.. Unplugged the wire at the tank fuel pump and hot wired the fuel pump and it runs. I don't know if it's pumping though. Cranked the engine over with the pump hot wired and it didn't hit but giving the engine a prime it hit and ran like yesterday. Even with the pump running the engine didn't run any longer than just on the prime. By now it had gone past my understanding so I came inside and started Googleing. First thing I could wonder was if there was a simple way to check for fuel flow. Didn't stumble on any simple tricks but got scared quickly by check this sensor, check that sensor. I didn't bother to the ladder chore so I didn't get the simple job done of putting the fan belt back on. Maybe that chore can wait because it would just get un-done when I pull the alternator to have it checked to see how bad I fried it. I'll probably check the forum tonight to marvel at someone talking about what they did. GPster.

[phat46]

I just gotta ask....is there gas in the tank?

[GPster]

I put about eight gallons in it when I finished the fill neck and connected the lines. Vehicle hasn't been moved and there are no wet spots under it. It's probably been in it about two months and I put the gas and some treatment in it as soon as I could seal it. I wanted the pump to be somewhat submerged and soaked in fuel because it's set dry for so long. the tank has been inside kept inside and sealed for the duration but i'll probably check it tomorrow. If no one has any trick way to see if the pump is moving fuel I'll probably put a hose on the discharge of the pump and short circuit the fuel back into the tank. I wish there was some logic explanation of the computer because the wiring diagram only says what goes where not why. GPster

[WZ JUNK]

My throttle body V 8 in the 54 Chevy did not fire up at first.  It would run on prime but die as soon as the gas was gone. My brother and I loosened the main fuel line to the throttle body and I cycled the pump a few times until fuel reached the throttle body.  Once we had fuel it fired and ran.  The engine had been not ran for about 8 years and the whole system was full of air.  If you try this method, have someone handy with a fire extinguisher nearby.

John

[GPster]

John, these are my hopes. It was part of the reason I put gas in the tank early. That will help lighten my mood today just thinking about it that way. My wife and I have planned a nice quiet drive in the country to visit an old General Store for relaxation . We have thought about this for better than a month and after our relaxing drive across the country last year we wanted to feel that way if only for a day. Even the dog is excited.  Being so high on every one's list of people to call when they want help has been in the way. That engine that hasn't run for five years is not that important for now. GPster

[GPster]

Well I parted the fuel line at the TBI and hot wired the pump and let it run for a while. Got nothing! Decided to do something a little different and put my little hand pumped vacuum bleeder on the fuel like. Got a bunch of air then got gas. Did't have to bring the line into a vacuum to get the result. Started the pump and got no difference. As soon as a took the suction off the line the fuel drained back to the tank so I would guess that the problem with the pump. So I guess removing and replacing the pump will be the next step.Had a nice day with my wife but when we got to the hardware store we found it was closed Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. It was just a recommended day trip on a Facebook site see was watching. Didn't look like much of an old time hardware store  but I could see a lot of mopeds and scooters around so we might just go back. My son-in-law dropped off an old Honda moped he expects me to make wonder full so I might be looking for a parts source. GPster

[rooster]

pressure regulator stuck closed maybe?

[GPster]

pressure regulator stuck closed maybe?

I'm not proud to say that I'm stumped by even this '87 technology. If it doesn't have a wire going to it and is not called by that name I don't know where it is. Went online to find a film (I know that has a name) about changing the pump and was somewhat surprised that it's not the whole assembly but is connected with hoses and clamps. When I pulled this donor vehicle apart the hoses at the top of the tank to the metal lines in the frame were haphazard. Maybe the pump had been changed in a previous life with similar care. I wondered why is would be so easy to siphon gas through the pump and I was even more surprised that it would drain back through the pump so quickly so maybe the pump discharge isn't connected  and the level of fuel in the tank is high enough that the connections are submerged. That would also explain why I can hear the pump running but am getting no flow. I'll pull the pump before I but a new in to see and most of the old junk S10s in this area have the frames rusted off over the rear end so I won't be going to a junk yard  to get a used one. Besides, this is "Cotton Mouth" sunning  season. I take longer to type the story of what I've done than I spend doing it but I can't work on a problem for to long before there is no sence to it, GPster

[rooster]

is there a chance the pump is running backwards? Their should be a check valve in the pump, should not drain back in tank.

[UGLY OLDS]

Joe ...Check your PM's ...

Bob.....

[GPster]

Well what I guessed is the case. The pump is connected to the assembly with a short section of hose inside the tank. the hose was separated so I was siphoning gas from the tank through the separation of the hose from the discharge of the pump. I was tired of it when I finally got the pump out last night so I didn't really look at it that close. First thought was that the pump had been worked on before and the hose that was used was not the correct type and it didn't stand being submerged in the gas in the tank. I remember that the hose on the exterior of the tank when I removed it was wrong. I could probably piece it back together but I will probably get a replacement pump kit with the correct hose and a new sock so I won't have to question the pump that has been tampered with. With company coming, dinner out tonight an the other complications of life I don't know when I'll get back to it but I can rest with the fact that maybe I have an answer. GPster

[GPster]

Well Amazon had it and my wife ordered ti. should be here Saturday and maybe I'll get it installed an running before the annual Lions Club Car Shw. That way I'll be able to go and talk and feel like I belong. GPster

[GPster]

Well I've been hitting it a lick and then have to come in to the cool and think about it. I got the new fuel pump installed and the pulled it back out because I couldn't hear it run. I hot wired it and it seemed OK so I re-installed it. New sock and new filter and used suction to prime the lines clear up to the TBI.. Still not a runner. I'm doing this by myself and I can't hear if the pump is running while i'm at the steering column turning the key and the engine is cranking. Put a test light on the line to the relay while cranking the engine and had nothing. Got nothing. Checked the fuse and it was good so I checked the hot side of the fuse terminals and got nothing there. and the terminals looked kind of bent. Before I pull the fuse box out and dis-assemble it I checked my wiring diagrams. The power is supposed to come off of the terminal strip and I've only got one wire there, from the alternator. The wiring diagrams that I got from AC Delco on talks about wires going to that terminal block and there isn't a component view of it identifying the wires and colors. Plus in the 30 pages of wiring diagrams there is only one battery and alternator and all the wires off of them are tagged with the engine and only so the confusion of the wiring that thought I sorted out five years ago is missing a wire. And they're all nicely bundled and taped.  To make matters worse I seem to remember  an odd wire that was not in the harness when I pulled the truck apart and at the time I thought it was in place for a "Jury Rigged" stereo system. Also when cleaning up the harness  had the fuse panel apart to remove all the acc. wires to clean it up and make it easier to mount under my smaller dash. Oh well! I'm cooled of now and can go out and look at it for a while if I don't trip over one of the other jobs I should be doing. GPster

[GPster]

Linda and I were talking the other night and came to the realization that it's probably been 35 years since I've wired a car. I have repaired wiring and changed electrical components but the last car I wired had a distributor that had points and used a coil. This is in  respect to the big time screw-up that I did. The terminal block that GM uses off their battery is such a neat place to get a hot wire under the hood, especially with the side posts on the battery and they make it so nice to head the wires the way they need to go. With the two big bolts it looked like a good place to make good all my ground connections  ( following Wayne's discussions ) I never thought those two terminal bolts had a buss between them. Luck was with me when I first did the wiring because the diagrams was using the alternator terminal  for a lot of connections and when I thought I had alternator problems I took all the wires off of it, bolted them together, and taped them up. Trying to find the missing wire for the fuel pump power I had the battery unhooked. I revised the wiring to get all the terminals off the back of the alternator and used that terminal block. Hooked the battery back up and started to fry  things. Replaced the fried wires today and put a fused wire to the circuit that powers the fuel pump so that I know it's hot now. Still nothing. Checked the power wire to the relay from the computer.  With the key on I got nothing. Checked the computer fuse and it was blown (saving the computer from the previous screw up?). New fuse and I got the short timed power to the fuse but got nothing out of the relay to the fuel pump. Bad relay? Too simple! Pulled the relay but it's too late in the day to get a new relay and continue this task. Carried the relay into the house and my wiring diagram is still on the table.  The fourth wire at the relay goes to ground but it doesn't show where or with what. Curiocity  got the best of me (my spelling too) and I went back out to check. The ground's not grounded! It goes into the harness and who knows where. I'll find it or ground it and maybe not need a relay. Maybe the alternator is good too! The engine kicking is enough to throw the belt off. To continue. GPster