real-live car question!!!!!

[tomslik]

here's the idea, what's wrong with it?
80ish g-body spindles and brakes on a 67-9-69 camaro subframe.
obviously the spindles have to be swapped side-to-side but what about the rest?
appears to be a fairly simple bolt-in on the surface but it's gotta be TOO simple to work....
anybody ever tried it?

[Dusty]

Tom,
A friend of mine did this exact swap about 2 years ago on a Studebaker P/U.  He used a camero Subframe, and used the disc brake setup of of a 80's Caprice.  This involved going from Front steer to Rear.  He swapped the spindles and experienced NO problems.  I wouldn't have thought it would have been that easy.  We loaded it on his trailer and took it to the front end shop and surprisingly everything was almost on the money.  Go for it...It works...

Benny

[Crosley.In.AZ]

tomslik,  not enough car questions here ?

seems like this swap was talked about here.  Or was it the earlier impala  larger spindles & brakes where there was a ball joint issue that enjenjo talked about?

[tomslik]

tomslik,  not enough car questions here ?

seems like this swap was talked about here.  Or was it the earlier impala  larger spindles & brakes where there was a ball joint issue that enjenjo talked about?

i don't remember seeing anything about using the spindles from a 79-up malibu(or clones) on a rear-steer sub.
could be i missed it,i guess.
1 of the reasons i'm looking in to this is that it MAY narrow up the track enough so this 41 packard i'm doing won't tear up fenders.

[Anonymous]

what rack & p you gonna use?

[tomslik]

what rack & p you gonna use?

no rack, just the camaro stuff.
although when i get done with a few  OTHER projects, i'm gonna work on putting a rack on a front steer stub.
be a good learning experience;)

[1FATGMC]

This involved going from Front steer to Rear.  He swapped the spindles and experienced NO problems.  
Benny

Benny was your friends camaro clip from the 70's like mine with front steer.  I wonder since you mention front steer. If I'm not mistaken the camaro sub's that Tom is talking about are rear steer to begin with, so that might make some difference.

c ya, Sum

[Ralph]

WZ Junk and I were posting about using 80's metric discs on a 79 Camaro subframe to narrow the track 1' per side. It didn't work. Only gained about 5/16". Maybe the trick is to use the 80's spindles too? Tell me more about this swap. Please!
Ralph

[Dusty]

This involved going from Front steer to Rear.  He swapped the spindles and experienced NO problems.  
Benny

Benny was your friends camaro clip from the 70's like mine with front steer.  I wonder since you mention front steer. If I'm not mistaken the camaro sub's that Tom is talking about are rear steer to begin with, so that might make some difference.

c ya, Sum

Yes the Camero sub was rear steer, but the Caprice is Front steer, so when you use the Caprice to get the disc brakes you have to swap sides so the steering arms are to the rear like the camero.  The ball joints are the same and steering and tie rod ends match up also.  Its an wasy to get disc brakes for the early rear steer camero subs...

Benny

[tomslik]

This involved going from Front steer to Rear.  He swapped the spindles and experienced NO problems.  
Benny

Benny was your friends camaro clip from the 70's like mine with front steer.  I wonder since you mention front steer. If I'm not mistaken the camaro sub's that Tom is talking about are rear steer to begin with, so that might make some difference.

c ya, Sum

Yes the Camero sub was rear steer, but the Caprice is Front steer, so when you use the Caprice to get the disc brakes you have to swap sides so the steering arms are to the rear like the camero.  The ball joints are the same and steering and tie rod ends match up also.  Its an wasy to get disc brakes for the early rear steer camero subs...

Benny

i think you guys have an idea of what the situation with the exception that it APPEARS that the malibu brake setup may narrow up the track about 2" total.that's kinda what i'm after.
still haven't had time to check the steering arm length.
sometime this week,i hope..

[Crosley.In.AZ]

NArrower track too? 1 inch per side?  I understand now what yer up to.  

Stock steering with different spindles for disc.

I would have never thoguht of this.

good idea tomslik.

[tomslik]

NArrower track too? 1 inch per side?  I understand now what yer up to.  

Stock steering with different spindles for disc.

I would have never thoguht of this.

good idea tomslik.

we'll see, i measured the steering arms and they're * close.
drug a stub around and i'll start tearing it apart monday or tuesday.
gonna go eat some moo nuts today

[enjenjo]

There are a couple issues here. First the lower ball joint is not the same, the later spindle uses a ball joint with a bigger stem, and the later ball joint won't fit without modification, the outside diameter has to be turned down by .080 to fit the earlier control arm.

Second, there may be an issue with Ackerman, the wheels will be fine straight ahead, but toe out badly when turned to either side. The steering arms can be reworked to correct the Ackerman.

And after swaping a lot of GM spindles, I don't think you will find 1" difference in the track width. In the long run it's easier, and cheaper to have wheels made with 1" more offset to narrow the track.

With a hacksaw modification, you can put disc brakes on the stock spindles. A mill is better, but I have done them with a hack saw and they work fine.

If you use the G body spindles on a front steer Camaro stub, they will bolt on, but there are camber change issues because the spindle is shorter. When the car leans in a turn the camber change gets a bit radical.

I haven't tried it, but I'm told upper control arms from a tall spindle full size GM car, 79 to 94 will correct the camber when using tall spindles on a G body or S10 stub.

[tomslik]

There are a couple issues here. First the lower ball joint is not the same, the later spindle uses a ball joint with a bigger stem, and the later ball joint won't fit without modification, the outside diameter has to be turned down by .080 to fit the earlier control arm.

doesn't sound like a big deal, needs bj's anyway.how about the uppers?


Second, there may be an issue with Ackerman, the wheels will be fine straight ahead, but toe out badly when turned to either side. The steering arms can be reworked to correct the Ackerman.

nova sub with ain a 41 packard has already got ackerman problems,it'll be a comprimise anyway ya look at it.


And after swaping a lot of GM spindles, I don't think you will find 1" difference in the track width. In the long run it's easier, and cheaper to have wheels made with 1" more offset to narrow the track.

as this sub has drums already, this sounds like a better idea (right now,anyway)

With a hacksaw modification, you can put disc brakes on the stock spindles. A mill is better, but I have done them with a hack saw and they work fine.

If you use the G body spindles on a front steer Camaro stub, they will bolt on, but there are camber change issues because the spindle is shorter. When the car leans in a turn the camber change gets a bit radical.


my spindles appear to be about the same as the nova,about 1/4-1/2" taller, in fact.


I haven't tried it, but I'm told upper control arms from a tall spindle full size GM car, 79 to 94 will correct the camber when using tall spindles on a G body or S10 stub.

[tomslik]

There are a couple issues here. First the lower ball joint is not the same, the later spindle uses a ball joint with a bigger stem, and the later ball joint won't fit without modification, the outside diameter has to be turned down by .080 to fit the earlier control arm.

Second, there may be an issue with Ackerman, the wheels will be fine straight ahead, but toe out badly when turned to either side. The steering arms can be reworked to correct the Ackerman.

And after swaping a lot of GM spindles, I don't think you will find 1" difference in the track width. In the long run it's easier, and cheaper to have wheels made with 1" more offset to narrow the track.

With a hacksaw modification, you can put disc brakes on the stock spindles. A mill is better, but I have done them with a hack saw and they work fine.

If you use the G body spindles on a front steer Camaro stub, they will bolt on, but there are camber change issues because the spindle is shorter. When the car leans in a turn the camber change gets a bit radical.

I haven't tried it, but I'm told upper control arms from a tall spindle full size GM car, 79 to 94 will correct the camber when using tall spindles on a G body or S10 stub.

ok, here's the skinny,
g body spindles are 1/2"taller that rear steer spindles.
the steering arms are so * close(to the nova/camaro) it's not an issue.
the ball joints need to be changed anyway so THAT'S no big deal.
tie rod ends on the nova are a bit larger ,anybody know what tapre that is?
how about the ball joints?might be easier to ream 'em out but i doubt it.
maybe just hog out the holes for the lowers in the control arm?

BTW, this little deal will NOT narrow up the track from a drum brake sub but aren't the disc subs an 1 1/2" wider?
this car may need to do the wheel thing too....