SBC points dist. convert to electronic

[Glen]

A friend inherited a 67 Camaro with a 327 in it.  I had to replace and set the points today.  I was considering putting an HEI on it, but its pretty close to the firewall.  Would you guys use this one?

would I need to upgrade the coil? it looks to be a normal black parts house coil.

http://proshop.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d104600/overview/

[kb426]

Glen, we had a discussion about pertronix some time ago. The consensus seemed to be that if it's good, it lasts a long time and if it's bad, you know it a short time. There's not anything that I would recommend more.

[Glen]

Glen, we had a discussion about pertronix some time ago. The consensus seemed to be that if it's good, it lasts a long time and if it's bad, you know it a short time. There's not anything that I would recommend more.

Thanks....I know its a toss up on failure, but I think in her situation I would rather swap it now while its here.  I will search for that conversation.

[chimp koose]

I looked into doing this with a points dist a while ago . there was some info on the net about using a ford reluctor wheel with a dodge pick up coil and wiring it into a gm module mounted under the distributor body. this one required the distributor shaft breaker cam to be turned down in a lathe to press fit the reluctor wheel on . I would think you may need to phase it correctly to get the rotor to match the cap when the spark is triggered but it uses all stock components so you are not stranded waiting for custom parts if it should crap out .I will probably do this one on my car when the time comes.

[Charlie Chops 1940]

Put in a quality set of points, condenser, rotor, a new cap and fresh wires along with a new coil. Revisit in 5 years.

[Beck]

I don't want to hijack this thread but...

How many rpm would the original points style distributor be capable of running?

How many rpm would the Pertronix handle? I called them last week asking about 8500 rpm in a 4 cylinder. They said "No Problem".

[Charlie Chops 1940]

Tom,

I've spun a few small blocks into the 7500 range back in the 60'd and 70's with stock Chevy points distributors. Of  course they were new dizzy's back in those days, not wore out stuff.

I ran a points dizzy in my track roadster with a pretty big cam and an MSD 6A box and coil to keep it lit. It would buzz to 6K.

I'm not a big Pertronix fan as I always seemed to get the ones that failed early. I have a Chevy HEI in my '40 Chevy and it has done well but it came with  the stock ZZ4 crate motor. 40K+ on it so far with no trouble. I carry an extra pick up coil and regular coil as I have had them fail out in Bumfork.

Charlie

[wayne petty]

there are so many options on small cap electronic ignition distributors to choose from.


one thing to know...

camaros and firebirds.. the Original ignition switch may DISCONNECT power to the IGN1 terminal when the key is turned to the cranking position..

these cars as do most others with points and key on the dashboard ignition switches use the R terminal on the starter solenoid to bypass the resistor wire from the bulk head connector to the ignition coil.. its that fiberglass weave insulated wire..

not all gm models do this..  but all key on the dashboard electronic ignition  versions can really use this mod..  

going to a 1975 chevy van ignition switch..  that switch was still used up thru the mid 1990s on GM parcel vans. P series.

that switch does NOT BREAK the IGN 1 contact in the cranking position.  it also has 2 separate connections for battery inputs.  that you really should use..  

this is something i worked up for it..

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb476/waynep712/GMKEYinDASH_POINTS_to_HEI.jpg

one will need the new connector.. and you can depin the original connector and move your wires into the proper positions on the new connector without needing to cut and splice..

1968 models will need to use the later ignition lock cylinder as 68s came with a key warning buzzer

a few additional secrets..  that everybody should know..

remember the braided ground straps that connect the cylinder heads to the firewall..  those must have cost the car manufacturers a million dollars a year to produce and install on every car..

lets look at this test..  you will probably want to save a copy of that test.. it will save you hundreds if not more in the future if you perform it on not only your hot rods but your street cars too

http://i.imgur.com/WMDprhm.jpg

lets discuss the battery voltage.. see that a fully charged battery has 12.65 volts at full charge with the surface charge removed.  your alternators are putting out 14.1 to 14.8 volts .. that's almost 2 volts higher than the battery can supply..  electrons also like to take the shortest path and they travel from Negative to Positive.  so the alternator is putting out current on the negative side.  thru the alternator housing.. the brackets. into the cylinder head or engine block..  where it will go up the negative battery cable to get to the negative battery post.   from there it will go thru the smaller negative wire to the inner fender.   if you don't have the engine to firewall ground straps.. that is the route the electrons will be forced to take.. if you have the ground straps properly installed.. the electrons from the alternator will flow on those and take that short cut.. as much of the electrical devices are grounded to the body of the car..

this is why test 4 is important..

now.. you have installed an aftermarket ignition box..  mounted it .. installed the big black wire that grounds it to the negative battery post as it says..  nope.. people usually ground that to the body..  its just a ground right..  with the electronic ignition box controlling the high voltage spark.. when the spark comes out of the ignition coil.. goes thru the various wire cap and rotor.. does it just stop at the engine block.  nope. it must make a circle and get back to the ground connection on the ignition box..

since the spark is in the engine block and heads.. and the box is grounded either at the battery or the body.. it has a LONG way to go to make the complete circle..

use a braided ground strap.. 5 bucks at most parts stores in the help section.. to ground the engine block to the firewall.. also ground your ignition box there.. or as some people have found out.. a 4 ringed harness.

one ring terminal on each head.. one to the distributor housing and the last to the firewall.  this hooks all the high voltage return paths into one .. there is less chance of the high voltage trying to get thru the low voltage electronics and causing them to fail..

guess what.. with the pertronix conversions.. sometimes people leave off the ground strap inside the distributor..  the one that goes from the base of the breaker plate to the movable section of the breaker plate..   the pertronixs has 2 wires on it..  one to the coil positive where it gets positive current from.. the other to the negative side of the coil.. the module connects the negative side of the coil to ground to  send electrons into the primary winding.. building a magnetic field..  when the module decides to trigger the discharge the power transistor in the module opens. the flow of electrons from ground stops..  the magnetic field collapses.. high voltage is formed as the magnetic field collapses..

so.. what am i talking about..

if the ground strap inside the distributor is too small to carry the additional current fast enough. or its broken.. or just not there.. how will the module supply electrons.. how will the spark make a complete circle path.  it may try to do so thru the electronics .. since the electronics in an ignition module blow out at around 19 or 20 volts.  hit them with 20KV..

make your own ground straps if yours are too small.. find something like test lead wire..  its super flexible. won't fatigue as the breaker plate moves with the vacuum advance.  or make your own out of something like solder wick braid..  its really not as flexible as some but it will work..

using fairly stiff conventional car wiring.. will usually fail later..

these are just things i thought i would throw out there and see it they stuck to the wall...  like the famous book.. Brown spots on the wall. by Who Flung Do.

[Beck]

make your own ground straps if yours are too small.. find something like test lead wire..  its super flexible. won't fatigue as the breaker plate moves with the vacuum advance.  or make your own out of something like solder wick braid..  its really not as flexible as some but it will work..

using fairly stiff conventional car wiring.. will usually fail later..

Years back I stumbled on some great flexable wiring. It was used in battery powered RC electric cars. It was silicone insulated and very fine. It was expensive, but may work nice for this. It was a hobby shop item.

Charlie, Thanks for the input. I am looking for a way to keep the spark lit to 8500 rpm. The stock distributor is basically a '64 Chevy II four cylinder part with a custom length. If I could find an old Midget race car mag that would fix it.

[enjenjo]

I have a Mallory Unilite conversion on my Marlin, it's been going strong for 25 years, In that time I am on my second Mallory coil, I had the wrong one the first time, And the Ballast resistor just went bad a couple months ago, but every thing inside is still going strong.

[Glen]

I replaced the points and set the dwell, got the car running pretty good. Its been a while since I did that.  

I could not get rid of an off idle stumble on tip in and the carb was ancient.  I put a new 1406 edelbrock on it, I really like those carbs for a street car.  It runs perfect right out of the box.

she is supposed to pick it up this afternoon.

[BFS57]

Hello;
Try "Daves Small Body HEI" He takes your distributor and makes a HEI out of it. Everything looks stock but it uses straight 12V to operate on.
Have one in my 57 Chevy and it starts and runs great!!
I HATE PERTRONICS!!! Had one of their modules crap out on me!!!

Bruce

[Beck]

Hello;
Try "Daves Small Body HEI" He takes your distributor and makes a HEI out of it. Everything looks stock but it uses straight 12V to operate on.
Have one in my 57 Chevy and it starts and runs great!!
I HATE PERTRONICS!!! Had one of their modules crap out on me!!!

Bruce

I understand they do great work but it may take up to 7 months to get your distributor back, after paying up front.

[38HAULR]

'Bubbas  Hot Rod Shop"  in Indiana  do the conversion or supply the bits . Do a Google search for their website .   They fit the Chrysler reluctor and use a pick up coil to trigger an external module and HEI coil.
Looking at their conversion it is similar to what I  did some years ago with  one of our GM based  Australian built  vehicles with a local  Aussie 253 V8.  These vehicles used points in the earlier versions then later fitted  a fat HEI version with a Bosch module fitted to the housing base triggering a conventional external coil built for HEI. At the time I contemplated the conversion for my 18 yo son who was running points, the HEI DISTRIBUTORS were as scarce as hens teeth and second hand units were offered for prices that bordered on highway robbery .  :evil:  :evil:  :evil: . My task was made easier because the points version used a Bosch distributor .   Chrysler Australia used Bosch also .   It was a simple task of interchangeability to simply fit a Chrysler reluctor assembly swapping out  the  points cam assy in our existing unit.  I fitted the Chrysler pick up coil  in place of the points and triggered a heatsink mounted Bosch module connected to a HEI coil.  Worked a treat once I got the module input polarity right ,wrong way around threw the timing out.

Frank

[river1]

bubbas= http://www.lindertech.com/bhrs/