fuel troubles

416Ford · October 28, 2014, 09:23:21 PM

Well the car has been down since Nats North in Kzoo.

It kept running out of fuel high speeds. I drove the last 40 miles home on the back roads and she ran alright.

Took it out a couple of time and she did the same thing. I pulled the filter (one of the cheap 3/8 inline metal filter I had mounted under the car and replaced it with the same thing.
Cut it open and she looked like metal shaving from me cutting it open. Other then that it was fine.

Took it out and it ran fine on the express way for about 4 miles then the same thing.

Drove it home and pulled the front bowl and found metal dust in the carb, It all came out with a magnet. Tried to drive it after that and she still has problems and now it's dying at all speeds.

Took the front bowl off and she is clean still.

Pulled the tank tonight and she was clean as was when I put it in.
Drained the gas and put it threw a filter. Clean.
Besides sending the carb in and having it gone completely through again what do I do.

I will pull the fuel line tomorrow and blow it out. Everything is new on this car.
Everything except the fuel line and tank were replace two years ago when this carb gave me problems. I was gone through three time that month looking for issues.

I had a glass inline filter in it till I mounted the fuel pressure regulator. Now there is no room for it other then below the power steering pump.

black is overspay from factory.

[/img]

416Ford · October 28, 2014, 10:12:09 PM

I should also add that all the rubber hoses up front have been replaced in the last year.
The one in the rear will be replaced when the tank goes back in.

kb426 · October 28, 2014, 10:20:58 PM

Is the vent on the tank completely free? With all the items you've checked, is it time to look at something else?

rooster · October 28, 2014, 10:35:45 PM

fuel pressure?

58 Yeoman · October 28, 2014, 10:53:36 PM

That last fuel line to be replaced is real reinforced fuel line and not collapsing?

wayne petty · October 28, 2014, 11:04:04 PM

i have not reduced images sizes on these and they are too big for the forum format..

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb476/waynep712/CAM00650_zpsycpcfu2f.jpg

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb476/waynep712/CAM00649_zpssfn0ofcg.jpg

the 1990 ford ranger fuel filter is a 10 MICRON application will work with 5/16 or 3/8 fuel hose using regular clamps.. or you can get fancy with OE style duck bill clips.. or even the later versions with the squeeze to release.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb476/waynep712/fordfuelfiltersafetyclip_zps64c70035.jpg

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb476/waynep712/fordfuellinesafetyclip_zpsd5ffd643.jpg

ford used these garter spring type clips for some that i actually have the rubber tool for it on my keyring when i run into one of these boogers.

i dropped a magnet into the crud i blew and shook out of a clogged fuel filter..

wait.. did it push the crud away. its clean around it..

nope.. i pushed the magnet with my fingers.. attracted all the debris..

what happens is this sediment comes from the refineries via the tank farms.. from the gas stations as some have damaged the super fine sediment screens to prevent needing to clean them.. an oops on their part as it will eventually kill the volume dispensing meter motor.. pistons that move to count exactly how many fractions of a gallon you get. when it gets into your fuel tank.. it can get rocked back and forth until its so small to go thru the strainer sock.. thru the 70 micron cheep non fuel injection fuel filters.. this sediment holds the fuel pump check valves part way open..

this reduces the suction to pull fuel up from the tank...

this reduces the pressure pushed out into the line to the carb..

what.. well if the fuel pump diaphragm is moving up and down. when it goes up per say.. it creates suction as the output check valve is closed.. it pulls the inlet check valve open pulling fuel up from the tank.. once the diaphragm starts moving down. the inlet check valve closes and as soon as the spring pushing the diaphragm down creates more fuel pressure that the output line has it will open the check valve and push some more fuel into that line.. the diaphragm moves up and the output check valve close.. and the suction starts again..

what happens when the check valves are not fully sealing..

the suction up from the tank is intermittent.. as some of the pressure is pushing backwards thru the check valve..

but what is worse.. the pressure line to the carb.. instead of getting a nice stable pressure on it that is held by the check valve. it gets a pulsing pressure that leaks back into the diaphragm cavity when the pump is in suction mode.. when you turn the engine off. the pump cavity can leak back thru the inlet check valve all the way to the tank...

now.. we get into strange area.. VAPORLOCK..

when the fuel line to the carb stays pressurized at rated fuel pressure. the fuel has a hard time boiling as its under pressure.. but when the pressure is reduced. the fuel can boil and turn to vapor. this pushes the liquid fuel backwards thru the partially open check valves and prevents the fuel pump from working at all in most cases..

want to know if this effects you..

disconnect the fuel line at the carb.. either blow thru it or extend it and blow thru it.. can you make bubbles in the fuel tank.. then you have a dirty fuel pump check valves..

install the 90 ranger or other 10 micron fuel injection type of fuel filter directly before the pump inlet. get the engine started.. take it to a fast idle with one hand.. use a LONG pair of needle nose to squeeze off the fuel hose into the pump or into the new filter. hold the fast idle until the engine RPMS start to drop as the fuel level drops.. release the long nose pliers.. the fuel pump will pull a big surge of fuel thru the filter flushing the pump and the line to the carb.. this will also flush the sediment from the wide open needle and seats.. on carter and quadrajet models.. on holley 4 barrels.. you will get the primary cleaned out.. you will have to perform this 3 or 4 times to really get the system clean..

ps... when you have the fuel tank sending unit out.. or get creative with some rubber hose down the filler tube without damaging the fuel sending unit arm.. you can use a second hose to push magnets thru to drop into the bottom of your fuel tank...

don't think you have sediment in your fuel tank.. take your parts pickup magnet and swing it thru the fuel when you have the sending unit or in tank pump out.. and be amazed that it comes back furry with corrosion..

by the way.. if you cannot get your tank out.. a really big and super strong speaker magnet separated from the speaker then stuck to the bottom of the tank with a written warning.. DO NOT MOVE OR REMOVE MAGNET.. painted on it .. this works also to gather the sediment.

416Ford · October 29, 2014, 07:57:30 AM

kb426
PostPosted: October 29 2014 Post subject:
Is the vent on the tank completely free?

Yes, and I did run the car without the cap on it to narrow down my problem.

Wayne,
I have eliminated tapor lock as an issue. The temps were in the 40* range when the car was run with issues and I was able to grab the metal line running up the front of the block.

I have taken the tank out of the car, removed the sending unit and pickup unit. Installed my trusty trusty parts pickup magnet and moved it around in all the hole. Did not pick up any sediment to speak of.

Aftermarket tank and the pickup tube does not have a sock on it. I do plan on putting a lower micron filter on it.

Still can not figure out where the junk came from. If it was in the tank and hit me that hard all at once, it should have signs of it somewhere. Shouldn't it?

416Ford · October 29, 2014, 08:01:18 AM

Quote from: "58 Yeoman"That last fuel line to be replaced is real reinforced fuel line and not collapsing?

It was correct fuel line for the 90's. Now we have to worry about disintegrating fuel line.

416Ford · October 29, 2014, 08:04:41 AM

Quote from: "rooster"fuel pressure?

5lb. just in front of the carb. tied bumping it up to 7lb and I had the same results.

wayne petty · October 29, 2014, 10:33:57 AM

throw a magnet into the bottom of the fuel tank anyway... since you have the tank out..

to clean out the fuel lines.. can you pick up a new Universal speedometer cable core.?? you can use that with a variable speed drill and a pair of thick palm gloves just like a sewer snake to go right thru every bend of your fuel lines..

hint go thru several times then push it out the far end.. and unwind some of the strands.. so you can really scrape the inside of the line clean...

you will need some kind of device to push some old gasoline thru if you don't want to use some spray..

the sediment probably came from a gas station someplace .. they could have gotten it from a delivery of fuel.. or their pipes or pumps are corroding.. it does happen..

you can find strong ring magnets you can also mount right to the end of your fuel filter can also..

i have gone thru this too many times to not share...

and ones filters and magnets are installed the system is trouble free..

416Ford · October 29, 2014, 09:18:58 PM

Quote from: "wayne petty"throw a magnet into the bottom of the fuel tank anyway... since you have the tank out..

That one I will do for sure. As for the speedo cable.... I do not think I would fine one that long.

Did not touch the car tonight. Back at it this weekend I hope.

wayne petty · October 30, 2014, 12:47:37 AM

Quote from: "416Ford"As for the speedo cable.... I do not think I would fine one that long.

advance auto parts in grand rapids keeps these in stock ..

ATP Universal Speedometer Core Repair Kit 83"
Part No. YC-100

i like using new cores rather than used ones for the reduced chance of a strand breaking in the middle of the core as i am feeding it in with a pair of gloves and the friend on the drill motor..

416Ford · November 04, 2014, 07:36:27 PM

Looking for opinions on the fuel tank vent. (should I put it to a vote today?).
I have the pickup tube vent running into the frame and up to the highest point. I have had fuel dump out of it at the gas station since it is lower then the fill tube. Can I weld a vent tube into the fill tube and run the hose to there?
Or how is everyone else running theirs? Carburated car.
Thanks

jaybee · November 04, 2014, 08:01:24 PM

Yes, if you have a vented cap you can run your vent line up to a a location near the cap and into the fill tube. Some older cars were built that way.

idrivejunk · November 04, 2014, 08:59:02 PM

I'll throw in...

WAY too much rubber line. Drag strip tech does not allow more than one foot total in an entire system, for example. Bend up some hard lines. I have been suprised by a "good, new" hose collapsing when warm and softer, when fuel demand peaked. You have a fairly tight radius coming right off the tank, on the supply line. Could be one of those things that only happens when you aren't able to watch it.

Agreed, vent mouth ought to be moved. A cover should be used at the end to prevent blockage.

Try it sans regulator if you dare. or try a borrowed pump and regulator. The crud that came from the gas station tank and pumped into your tank and then your pump and carb since theres no sock- is probably still lurking in your pump or regulator. That would be my current assumption with the info given, even though theres a filter in place. The crud did make it to the bowl so its safe to assume everything else in the line got fouled. It does look like whatever it was is no longer in the tank.

Good luck winning. Resist the urge to throw something, you'll get past this!