Im B'ville dreaming again. Any thoughts?

[unklian]

Does anyone have a ballpark idea on the pricing of one of the custom billet cranks?

Unklian -  Hooley was having a little issue with the rod ratio in the BBC he was planning. In fact he is where I came up with a "gernade with the pin pulled" term.

Expect to pay around $3500 for a billet crank.
Give or take.

Real short rods can create problems with side thrust,
because of the rod angle. Long rods don't have this problem.
Darin Morgan(R&M) has done dyno testing, and says there is
nothing to rod ratios in a high rpm motor.

[unklian]

A pair of 2bbl carbs would help mixture distribution.

http://www.schmidtmotorworks.com/enginedesigner.aspx

[enjenjo]

In 78 and 79 Chevy made a 200 ci. V6 with a bore of 3.5" This was a semi even fire engine. If you used that block with a 262 ci even fire crank destroked to 3.10" you come up with 182 ci. With Honds rod bearings, you would not need a lot of welding to get there ,or you could use a billet crank. Scat will make a custom billet crank starting at $2500, call for price.

[unklian]

F is 123.00 to 183.99 cubes.

1/2 of a 350 would be easier + cheaper.
Also allow room for bigger valves.

[unklian]

F is 123.00 to 183.99 cubes.

4 cyl

4.030 x 3.48 = 177.5

4.155 x 3.25 = 176.2
(400 block + 327 crank)

4.155 x 3.48 = 188.7
Just slightly too big.


Destroke a 377 crank down to 3 3/8 gives you 183 cubes.
4.155 x 3.375 = 183

I think the 400 block gives lots of room for valves.
And a 4 cyl makes power at a lower rpm, than the same size V8.

[Beck]

phat46 - using 4 of the V6 cylinders would work, just haven't looked at that.

Mikej - The Corvair may be a good choice. The engine sizing is right. I don't think there is much available in HP for the motor. The '65 and up have pretty good aero shape. No holes in the grill should help front air flow. The 4 speeds are tough enough for the small motors. The powerglide would cost too much power I think.

enjenjo - that 200 V6 is the little brother of the 267 V8 I was talking about above. I didn't realize it wasn't even fire. I wonder if there are decent flowing heads for it that have the small valve sizing, like the 305HO heads would work on the 267 V8. Do the 4.3 parts fit? What bodies (good aerodynamics) did the 200 V6 come in? It's time for me to do a little more surfing..
EDIT: I see the 200 was only made in 78 + 79 BUT that may not be an issue. The motor FAMILY needs to have been used in the body to make it legal so if it had any of the other motors in the family it should be legal to run, RIGHT??? I need to learn more about the rule here..

[Beck]

In 78 and 79 Chevy made a 200 ci. V6 with a bore of 3.5" This was a semi even fire engine. If you used that block with a 262 ci even fire crank destroked to 3.10" you come up with 182 ci. With Honds rod bearings, you would not need a lot of welding to get there ,or you could use a billet crank. Scat will make a custom billet crank starting at $2500, call for price.

Can't reduce journal size on the even fire V6 because of offsets in the adjacent cylinders. The journal size was increased in the even fire motors to give the crank enough strength. This is the site I got that from.
http://engine.firebirdv6.com/V690.html
OR do you think it would live?

[enjenjo]

In 78 and 79 Chevy made a 200 ci. V6 with a bore of 3.5" This was a semi even fire engine. If you used that block with a 262 ci even fire crank destroked to 3.10" you come up with 182 ci. With Honds rod bearings, you would not need a lot of welding to get there ,or you could use a billet crank. Scat will make a custom billet crank starting at $2500, call for price.

Can't reduce journal size on the even fire V6 because of offsets in the adjacent cylinders. The journal size was increased in the even fire motors to give the crank enough strength. This is the site I got that from.
http://engine.firebirdv6.com/V690.html
OR do you think it would live?

With further reading, I find that almost all racing cranks for the V6 are odd fire just for that reason. Scat has a forged steel crank for the V6  for $1500, you might see if that can be finished with the stroke you want.

As far as heads the 200ci. engine has 1.84, and 1.50 valves. There is a GM performance head that is much better that will fit.

[unklian]

Figure out the build price, V6 vs 1/2 a V8.

[Bruce Dorsi]

There was a Bonneville story in Hot Rod 2 months ago. One class that jumped out at me was F/CRRO. Classic classes are 1981 and older. Classic classes have always been limited to US cars. Last year they opened the F size engine Classic Production to foreign cars. There was a VW Karman Ghia that ran in the class last year but couldn't complete it's backup run so the class still has an open record. The F motor class is 2 to 3 liter or 123 to 184 cubic inches.

What speed did the Karman Ghia run?  

Is there a Class "G" or "H" for smaller engines?

Are there rules on weight, tires, suspension, etc?

Is the rule book available online anywhere?

[GPster]

With further reading, I find that almost all racing cranks for the V6 are odd fire just for that reason. Scat has a forged steel crank for the V6  for $1500, you might see if that can be finished with the stroke you want.

If that is the case is the V6 block enough like the V8 that ithe front half of the V8 crank will fit in the V6 block and you can figure how to make a flywheel flange with part of what syicks out the back? GPster

[Crosley.In.AZ]

F is 123.00 to 183.99 cubes.

4 cyl

4.030 x 3.48 = 177.5

4.155 x 3.25 = 176.2
(400 block + 327 crank)

4.155 x 3.48 = 188.7
Just slightly too big.


Destroke a 377 crank down to 3 3/8 gives you 183 cubes.
4.155 x 3.375 = 183

I think the 400 block gives lots of room for valves.
And a 4 cyl makes power at a lower rpm, than the same size V8.

interesting , I would think you need to buzz the 4 cyl a bit more RPM.

Camshaft design as well  would be real important to keep the engine in a power band after a shift so the engine can recover quicker from the RPM drop

:T)

[unklian]

And a 4 cyl makes power at a lower rpm, than the same size V8.

interesting , I would think you need to buzz the 4 cyl a bit more RPM.

VE is related to piston speed.
Shorter stroke, requires more rpm.

Run some number through here:
http://www.schmidtmotorworks.com/enginedesigner.aspx
Compare peak hp and rpm, for
various combinations with the same displacement.

[unklian]

VE is related to piston speed.
Shorter stroke, requires more rpm.

Run some number through here:
http://www.schmidtmotorworks.com/enginedesigner.aspx
Compare peak hp and rpm, for
various combinations with the same displacement.

Remember, mechanical, and financial, stresses are related to rpm.

As rpm increases, both stresses increase exponentially.

[Beck]

What speed did the Karman Ghia run?  

Is there a Class "G" or "H" for smaller engines?

Are there rules on weight, tires, suspension, etc?

Is the rule book available online anywhere?

I think the Ghia went 133. The rules changed about engine sizing. Now any engine from 0 to 183 ci is legal for this class (if I understand the rules). That is because there is no smaller engine classes in this body class. Classic Production has to run the stock chassis. Weight and tires are not limited. In the big classes, like Hooley's, weight is your friend. On the salt, big power and light weight equal no traction. With the small engine, lower power, I'm looking at the weight would limit acceleration.