Middle Jeep, more of the same only different.

[GPster]

In case you've forgotten. !980 Jeep CJ7, 258 cu. in. straight six, Quadratrack transfer case and Chrysler 999 Torqueflite. While on vacation it hadn't run for about 10 days and some guy and his wife came to look at it because she thought she wanted to "Off Road" with him and his friends and she couldn't drive a standard transmission. I truthfully told him that it would probably require some "messing" with and then got it running for them and let him/her take it for a little ride. It took "choke" to get it running and had to leave it on some because it was cold and hadn't run for a while. It sputtered when he took off but he remembered the choke so it straightened out. They were gone for a while and she was driving (white in the face) when they came back. We talked for a while, no mention of anything drastic they found wrong and they said they would think about it. Backed it back into the driveway and left it sit for a couple of days. Went to drive it yesterday and when it finally had run long enough to idle (which seemed a little fast) it took off. It made a firm/quick shift out of low and seemed firm in second (mid-range?) but stayed firmly in that gear with no shift to high. Got out my Hayes manual and read. Fluid red and level OK (running, warm after driving and in PARK). Shift linkage OK, the next movement is NEUTRAL. Checked gas linkage with my mind aware of the fast idle the other day. Linkage OK and idle had settled down. The throttle control rod from the carb linkage to the trans was questionable (but it may have been that way from it's "Mudding" days) so I work on it and made it look like and adjusted as per the manual. Still no shift. The next step in the manual is to consult (rather than Insult) a professional. This Jeep has a "Skid Pan" rather than a normal transmission crossmember and at least two of the bolts into the frame are twisted off. I've put off changing the transmission filter (and fixing the speedometer) this long because of that. I don't know yet if I'm going to end up fixing my truck myself after that wreck so I'd rather explore any suggested "Quick Fixes". GPster

[wayne petty]

is there any problem with the Throttle valve linkage?? cable on that jeep??

727s use a throttle valve linkage or cable to change the line pressure in the transmission ...

if the transmission  linkage is not pressed properly against the throttle linkage.. you will have incorrect line pressure changes to match the amount of throttle opening...

kinda like running with your transmission modulator unplugged...

[GPster]

Well, I spent some time on the internet trying to expand my knowledge about problems found with this transmission in Jeeps. Gathered some mis-information and trying to sort through it. One site said Jeep didn't start using this transmission til '82. Then they said that the later ones had locking converters. The transmission throttle rod looks like the earlier than '82 pictured in the Hayes manual so that's how I adjusted it. It was mentioned on another site that the trans fluid should be checked in NEUTRAL and that the fluid used should be Type #3 not type "F" and everyone said that most of the trans problems might be due to low fluid level. So I drove it to get it warm and checked it it NEUTRAL and the level was the same as in PARK. Today after the reading with more information I was more aware that puting it in gear put an immediate strain on the engine. Going through the symptons got me to wondering if the torgue converter is not un-locking. Is that a sympton that can cause the trans not shifting into DRIVE or do I have two problems. None of the recommended fixes look simple. Maybe while I'm waiting for an insurance adjuster to come and tell me that the "Good Neighbors" think that they should "Total" my truck I can start drilling out those busted crossmember bolts. GPster

[wayne petty]

i know that you did not ask for this inflamation.. but you are going to get it any way

throttle valve adjustment.

http://www.autozone.com:80/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c1528004b25e


Duralast/Transmission Filter (A/T)
For your 1980 Jeep CJ7 4.2L 2BL 6cyl
Price: $6.99 Part Number: TF127

Duralast/Transmission Mount
Part Number: 2693
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Application: Transmission model A727 or 36RH
Price: $6.99
just in case...

say... if you get the skid plate off...  can you weld some nuts to the broken bolt end and then impact them out.. or soak them with some Wd40 as they are cooling...  or wick some wax into the threads.. again.. after welding some nuts to the broken stub... might be easier than drilling them out..

if you do have to drill them out.. if any threads are exposed.. find a nut that will thread on at least 2 turns.  with an allen set screw or a different bolt the correct diameter for the nut.. either grind the solid end off the allen set screw... or center drill the bolt on a lathe..  now you have a guide to center the drill bit on the middle of the broken part.. think of a drill bushing... but this is much cheeper..  since you only have 2...

i have always through of using some of the welding type of vice grips... so i could straddle the stud on the back side.. and have a drill guide in the flat side...

[taxpyer]

Gpster,
            I feel for you :cry: , I have four jeeps different ages and they are all great . I wish you could just enjoy your jeep. From personal experience when something causes you this much headache............ sell it.  You deserve a good jeep, cut your losses and get another one newer like a yj or a tj you'll never look back. I had a mazda pickup,,,,,total nightmare,,,,, I finally just gave it away and the moment it left all was well.
You are a good man who deserves a break,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, just a thought.

I understand your wanting to fix it but sometimes it's just not worth it.

Please don't take offense from this posting, just some advise.

[GPster]

Taxpyer. It's been for sale but only to people that see the sign on it sitting in my driveway. I'm just trying to keep the list smaller when I tell them what's wrong with it. This Jeep hasn't turned out to be what I had imagined. Wayne, The bolts are broken off even with the frame. This frame is made of a rectangular tubing type structure of two channel type pieces welded together with nuts welded inside of them to fasten the crossmember to. The frame had been full of mud because of this vehicle's previous life. I've flushed it clean but the bolts are probably rusted where they protrode past the welded nuts in the interior of the frame. I've drilled holes in the sides of the frame so I can at least provide some lubrication but I may have to try to drill the broken bolts in their center and run a tap in them to make them not exist. I probably stand a better chance of doing that than easy-outing them. I've had a filter kit for this thing for almost a year. Just have been too busy fixing broken things than to do routine maintainance. I am probably able to change the fluid and filter but I'll probably need to do some studying to see if there's anything else I'd dare to do. GPster

[taxpyer]

Good on ya for trying,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for the frame bolts, try turning them through the frame. Some times the heat and torque from the drill bit will turn them right through the nut on the inside , then if they don't turn try the easyout. Another method is to weld a nut on the broken bolt end, usually the heat will free them and you can back them out.

Good luck!

[GPster]

Well, today I got the crossmember off. Leaves me a little more room to work on that busted bolt but evidently the crossmember wasn't on correctly. There were only three bolts holding it on and there should have been six. I didn't want to break one more bolt and be in the position that only two bolts were holding  the weight of the trans and transfer case and that big skid pan. when I got the skid pan down I found three more threaded bolt holes that hadn't been used because the skid pan was mounted crooked and had covered them up. Also the tranny mount to the tailhousing was loose. Happened to grab the front driveshaft and it turned. Evidently the transfer case has never been in 4W High since I've owned it. The driveshaft doesn't turn in 4W LOW but of couse it turns in Neutral of the transfer case and 2W HIGH but I can't get it back that last click. Also the pan on the transmission appears new. Because I have the new filter and gasket I'll look and change it. This is not the first time I've barked up the wrong tree. Maybe while the pan's off I'll try to find a professional to look at it and lead me in the direction of the next step.Maybe Monday. Every time I get out from underneath it I have to be still for a minute to get my balance back. GPster

[GPster]

Well I got the pan off. My mistake on the new gasket. It was no gasket and 1/8" of red silicone. The pan has been beat on and they tried to replicate the stiffening edge with weld in one place. A couple of the bolts had pulled the threads out of the case but they were in a place where longer bolts could go clear through and nut could be put on them ( shifter side). No grit in the pan but the filter was black so I'll change it and hope. The broken crossmember bolt into the frame required me to drill it clear out but now that I can use all of the other five I just ran a 10 MM tap in the hole and I'll fill that hole with a metric bolt. Tomrrow I'll check around to see if I can find another pan and I'll put a drain in it. Let all the fluid drain from a loose pan into a tub.When I took the pan off I missed the tub but I had put a tarp down first so if I missed the pan the driveway would be covered. Even though the tarp was still folded up and was four layers thick it didn't keep the last two quarts off the driveway. While I'm out and about tomorrow I'll also have to buy some "Kitty Litter" because I had to use what was in stock. GPster

[wayne petty]

sorry about the SPILL..  i poured out a whole bag of clean up one day when a oil filter popped..  all the cats in the area were thrilled.. rolling in the long line of cat litter...  only 2 came up with engine oil on them..  they could not understand why i was laughing ..

i have thought about creating a suction tank from an old roll around compressor tank... using a long vacuum hose to another car to power the suction...  

a drain hose is a good idea on the side of the pan...
be sure to use transmission oil cooler hose... if there is not a lot of sheet metal thickness.. you might be able to take a 1/4NPTM x 3/8 hose barb... rethread the 1/4 nptm to something like 7/16-14 UNC and use some modified thin jam nuts or cut a pair of nuts in half..

you could also grind a 7/16 jam nut thinner.. run your 1/4" npt tap deep into it.. so it will sit next to the HEX and tight.. run the 1/4 npt tap into a second jam nut but only a few threads so it will be smaller to fit on the last few threads... this will make you a CHEEP.. hose barb to fit in a stamped steel pan without brazing or silver soldering..

there are THESE...

Mityvac/1.9 gal. fluid evacuator
Price at AZ: $76.99 special order...

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/grn/MIT7400/image/4/

Part Number: MIT7400

Convenient manual pump operation. Integrated 2.3 gallon (8.8 liter) capacity reservoir. Large base with foot stabilizer. Durable, chemical resistant polyethylene construction. Automatic overflow prevention. Quick-drain pour spout.
Part Number:   MIT7400

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mighty vac also sells a unit that is compressed air powered...Mityvac/2.3 gal. pneumativac fluid evacuator
Price: $112.99 Part Number: MIT7300

[Arnold]

sorry about the SPILL..  i poured out a whole bag of clean up one day when a oil filter popped..  all the cats in the area were thrilled.. rolling in the long line of cat litter...  only 2 came up with engine oil on them..  they could not understand why i was laughing ..

i have thought about creating a suction tank from an old roll around compressor tank... using a long vacuum hose to another car to power the suction...  

a drain hose is a good idea on the side of the pan...
be sure to use transmission oil cooler hose... if there is not a lot of sheet metal thickness.. you might be able to take a 1/4NPTM x 3/8 hose barb... rethread the 1/4 nptm to something like 7/16-14 UNC and use some modified thin jam nuts or cut a pair of nuts in half..

you could also grind a 7/16 jam nut thinner.. run your 1/4" npt tap deep into it.. so it will sit next to the HEX and tight.. run the 1/4 npt tap into a second jam nut but only a few threads so it will be smaller to fit on the last few threads... this will make you a CHEEP.. hose barb to fit in a stamped steel pan without brazing or silver soldering..

there are THESE...

Mityvac/1.9 gal. fluid evacuator
Price at AZ: $76.99 special order...

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/grn/MIT7400/image/4/

Part Number: MIT7400

Convenient manual pump operation. Integrated 2.3 gallon (8.8 liter) capacity reservoir. Large base with foot stabilizer. Durable, chemical resistant polyethylene construction. Automatic overflow prevention. Quick-drain pour spout.
Part Number:   MIT7400

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mighty vac also sells a unit that is compressed air powered...Mityvac/2.3 gal. pneumativac fluid evacuator
Price: $112.99 Part Number: MIT7300

 I have a cheap one..very popular..sold at boat dealers for changing oil.Sorry..can't even remember it's name?? Had it for years. Very slick!
Stick the hose in,pump it up.it automatically pumps whatever out. Wipe off the end of the hose and put it back in the handle. There is even a spout! to pour the old whatever into another container. Done.

[GPster]

I keep looking at the plastic fluid pump that Harbor Frieght keeps putting on the first page of their sales flyers. At $4.40 (?) it could almost be another Harbor Freight throw-away item after a one time use. Haven't needed anything else to make the 15 mile trip worth while. My dog has allergies and is on a vegaterian diet so his dog food is $42.00 for 28#. I am on that pet store's valued customer list so they send me $5.00 coupons all the time for non-food pet items. So the kitty litter is covered and the pet store is closer than Harbor Freight. Got a new (differant but used) trans pan this morning. While waiting for his helper in the shop to run it through a cleaner I told him that I hoped a new filter and fuild would cure my problem.  More talking and he refered to that linkage to the carb. He said that on those Jeeps sometimes someone will "mash" the gas pedal  (like when the choke is still on) and there's so much rust and junk collected around the trans linkage that it doesn't return all the way. When that happens it doesn't seem like the engine comes back to idle and the trans pressures stay elevated and it will clunk into gear and not want to shift out of 2nd. As much junk as I shoveled out of the skid pan and the side of the transmission maybe there's hope. Of course all this typing is keeping me from working on it but I promised that I'd get the leaves cleared away so that tonight we can have a fire and cook hot dogs and marshmellows. Have to keep my priorities straight. GPster

[Arnold]

sorry about the SPILL..  i poured out a whole bag of clean up one day when a oil filter popped..  all the cats in the area were thrilled.. rolling in the long line of cat litter...  only 2 came up with engine oil on them..  they could not understand why i was laughing ..

i have thought about creating a suction tank from an old roll around compressor tank... using a long vacuum hose to another car to power the suction...  

a drain hose is a good idea on the side of the pan...
be sure to use transmission oil cooler hose... if there is not a lot of sheet metal thickness.. you might be able to take a 1/4NPTM x 3/8 hose barb... rethread the 1/4 nptm to something like 7/16-14 UNC and use some modified thin jam nuts or cut a pair of nuts in half..

you could also grind a 7/16 jam nut thinner.. run your 1/4" npt tap deep into it.. so it will sit next to the HEX and tight.. run the 1/4 npt tap into a second jam nut but only a few threads so it will be smaller to fit on the last few threads... this will make you a CHEEP.. hose barb to fit in a stamped steel pan without brazing or silver soldering..

there are THESE...

Mityvac/1.9 gal. fluid evacuator
Price at AZ: $76.99 special order...

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/grn/MIT7400/image/4/

Part Number: MIT7400

Convenient manual pump operation. Integrated 2.3 gallon (8.8 liter) capacity reservoir. Large base with foot stabilizer. Durable, chemical resistant polyethylene construction. Automatic overflow prevention. Quick-drain pour spout.
Part Number:   MIT7400

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mighty vac also sells a unit that is compressed air powered...Mityvac/2.3 gal. pneumativac fluid evacuator
Price: $112.99 Part Number: MIT7300

 I have a cheap one..very popular..sold at boat dealers for changing oil.Sorry..can't even remember it's name?? Had it for years. Very slick!
Stick the hose in,pump it up.it automatically pumps whatever out. Wipe off the end of the hose and put it back in the handle. There is even a spout! to pour the old whatever into another container. Done.

  Sorry about that..mine is a Pela 6000..$60. I have had it and used it for years..wow can this thing be handy.

  Actually..my Police Suburban 4x4  could do the exact same thing if it was hooked up to my bank account haha.