Steering specs for 56 ford?

32 Chevy · April 24, 2012, 10:12:52 PM

The steering in my Ranchwagon has always been a bit twitchy. It wanders a bit on the highway and seems sensitive to input, especially since I changed wheels to 265 x 70 x 16.

Basically the suspension is stock except for 2" drop spindles adapted from a 78 Granada. All the parts like bushings, shocks etc. are new and tight. The steering box is the new Borgeson power unit designed as a bolt in for 55-56 fords.

I recall some discussion on this board a while back about how original alignment specs dont relate well with modern tires. The alignment is currently set to the original specs stating:

Caster 1/2 to 1 1/2 degrees
Camber 1/4 to 1 1/4 degrees
Toe in 1/16 to 1/8.

It seems to be tracking ok because tread wear is even across both front tires. When I run the flat of my hand across the tread I don't detect any feathering or taper that would indicate misalignment.

Suggestions? I 'preciate it!

Dave R.

wayne petty · April 24, 2012, 11:18:07 PM

those are fairly broad specs... can you get a computerized print out of what the car actually is... exact what the car is measured at.. not what the book says.

?

is there ANY slack in any of the tie rod ends..

1 1/2 degrees negative on the caster is where i am for on my later fords..

(upper ball joint behind the lower ball joint.. )

1/2 positive camber on the left.. (leaning out slightly on the left when pointed straight ahead)

1/4 positive camber on the right..

why more on the left than the right.. to counter act the crown of the road..

toe in.. tend to get in in the 1/8" toe in.. but i usually double check my setting by having the car driven down the street while i EYEBALL the toe in adjustment by looking at the tires as i stand inline with them..

32 Chevy · April 25, 2012, 02:50:28 PM

Thanks Wayne.

The specs on the computer printout are:

Caster right 1.0 degrees
Caster left 1.4 degrees

Camber right 0.2 degrees
Camber left -0.2 degrees

Toe in left .2 degrees
Toe in right .2 degrees

wayne petty · April 25, 2012, 03:31:59 PM

The specs on the computer printout are:

Caster right 1.0 degrees MORE PLEASE on the right...
Caster left 1.4 degrees

the right upper ball joint needs to be moved toward the back of the car just slightly.. how thats done if you have eccentrics or shims..

or strut rods on the lower.. moving the lower ball joint forward.. would have the same effect..

i don't know how wide your tires are... usually a little more positive on the camber.. leaning out at the top will help.. this is almost perfectly straight up...

Camber right 0.2 degrees
Camber left -0.2 degrees

Toe in left .2 degrees
Toe in right .2 degrees

please.. if you paint is cured.. stick a piece of low tack masking tape on the side of the fenders usually in front of the tires.. so you can stand a yard stick there and mark the height without you sitting in the car.. then get in.. have somebody make another mark on the tape... then you know how many bags of sand to carry with you or bench press weights... to the alignment shop as you have calculated out how much the car drops when you get in..

warning.. if you ride alone.. most of the time.. do it just with you.. if your long distance travels are with wives or friends .. that weight needs to be calculated..

the yard stick is a neat trick i have used a bunch of times.. i usually mark it above my turn table plates.. but having the car set up with the proper weight as the tech drives it onto the alignment rack is the idea..

you are not trying to set the weight on the alignment rack.. but on a flat shop floor..

be sure to equally distribute the weight on both sides for road testing.. or remove it..

if you are going to use bench weights.. use a bungie through the hole if you position them on the floor in front of the seat.. hooked to the seat frame.. to stop them from sliding forward.. the floor of the back seat is usually close enough..

if your car only drops a quarter inch when you get in.. then the point is moot.. if it drops more than that. well.. you get the idea..

try not to drop weights on the toes..

ben there done that.. you can also use masking tape for left or right side positioning.. R or L...

32 Chevy · April 25, 2012, 03:49:05 PM

O.k, good stuff here.

I'll double check the condition of the ball joints etc before taking it back and your point of passenger weight affecting the alignment also makes sense.

But the so called alignment tech is only capable of inputting the numbers he's given. What specs would you advise I tell him to to set?

wayne petty · April 25, 2012, 03:52:09 PM

and the tire size is

on the front...

camber.. 1/2 positive left. 1/4 positive right

caster 1 1/2 negative..

toe in 0.2

32 Chevy · April 25, 2012, 04:40:40 PM

And the tire size is 215-60-17

wayne petty · April 25, 2012, 04:53:00 PM

what i posted will work...

if it pulls to the left.. you might want to reduce it to
camber
3/8 positive left..
3/16 positive right.. as that would be a 25% reduction ..

this reduction would reduce outer tire wear.. which is why the tires might be set at 0 camber..

another question.. are the roads in your area FLAT.. or crowned.. or have RUTS from spiked winter tires..?

you could be twitchy just because of the difference in space between the tires in the grooves in the road..

on the 101 and a bunch of other freeways around.. they milled the surface smooth on the concrete.. man its nice to drive on.. only problem.. the banzai runs the motorcycles make past my place.. some sound like they are going over 150..

32 Chevy · April 25, 2012, 05:34:21 PM

Thanks Wayne,

I'm up to the north of you in western Washington. Yep, they crown the roads here or else we'd be leaving rooster tails behind our tires.

Soon as I get the adjustments done I'll report back because I'm sure others have the same questions.

Dave R.

wayne petty · April 25, 2012, 06:33:01 PM

western washington... i know that place.. bellingham mostly.. a cousin is mayor there..

love making stops in kent at boeing surplus..

enjenjo · April 25, 2012, 07:52:44 PM

Do you have a rack and pinion on that car? If do, you might want a little more caster, as steering racks don't self center, like steering boxes do.

32 Chevy · April 25, 2012, 08:32:22 PM

Quote from: "enjenjo"Do you have a rack and pinion on that car? If do, you might want a little more caster, as steering racks don't self center, like steering boxes do.

Hi Frank,

Wow, you have a good memory. I took out the Cavalier rack because I got tired of the wide turning radius and 4 1/2 turns lock to lock. I use the Ranchwagon as 'almost' a daily driver and have many thousands of miles on it. Heck, just last weekend we took it skiing! Shoulda seen all the thumbs in the ski area parking lot.

I now have one of the new Borgeson bolt in power steering boxes in the wagon. It's really nice... Good road feel and nice tight turning radius. No more back - and - forthing to park in a tight spot.

Dave

wayne petty · April 25, 2012, 08:53:10 PM

I took out the Cavalier rack because I got tired of the wide turning radius and 4 1/2 turns lock to lock.

its a shame.. that shorter steering arms are not easily available.. to restore the ratio of movement to the turn angle of the spindles.. without it being Ubolt over the top things to shorten the steering arms and return the ratio..

29abone · May 04, 2012, 04:30:30 PM

When I was a suspension designer at Chrysler, we used negative caster for manual steering for less effort, and positive caster for stability with power steering. Since your car was originally manual, you should take this into consideration.

32 Chevy · May 23, 2012, 12:12:42 AM

Quote from: "29abone"When I was a suspension designer at Chrysler, we used negative caster for manual steering for less effort, and positive caster for stability with power steering. Since your car was originally manual, you should take this into consideration.

O.k. I got it set to the specs suggested by Wayne. Steering is much better, crisper and tracks better. But it still wanders a little bit on rough roads.

I'm curious about A bones' comment about power steering.... The 56 was originally a manual steer and all the specs I can find for that vintage don't differentiate between power vs manual. If I add more positive camber won't that increase tendency to wander?

Thx,

Dave