2003 silverado 1500

[348tripower]

Maybe somebody knows. When we shut this thing off we can hear a timer running. It runs the battery down. I can pull the insturment panel /driver info fuse and it stops. None of the instrument repair people seem to know or want to tell me anything. All of the gauges work.  Could this be a BCM problem?
Thanks,
Don

[wayne petty]

retained power relay....

several ways to attack this...

if you have a low amp current probe.. 0 to 40 amps .. plugs into a digital voltmeter...   clamping around various wires tracing where the current is flowing.. not always an easy job with a properly wrapped harness..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

one of the harbor freight mini amp circuit testers. there are 2 versions.. one for the tiny fuses.. one for the ATO type fuses..

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-amp-automotive-fuse-circuit-tester-67725.html

plugging it into various fuses.. checking the loads...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ON 1996 and newer OBD2 cars.. there are multiple circuits that stay on for up to 6 minutes after shut down.. sometimes longer...

i usually search for parasitic draws with something like this battery switch installed in ONE battery cable..

http://www.harborfreight.com/battery-disconnect-switch-97853.html

i have a pair of test leads for my amp meter that i can hook firmly to both sides of this switch.. so when you open the switch.. all the power flows through your amp meter shunt..

with the switch installed.. the KNOB tightened down....    the amp meter hooked up..  start the engine.. let it run for a minute or two.. shut it off..    roll down the drivers window..   get out.. lock the door as normal...    look at watch..  in six minutes.. loosen the green knob...  what kind of amp load do you have?

normal parasitic loads are 0.030 milliamps..

start pulling fuses under the hood in the fuse box...   once you find one that causes the amp meter to drop to 0.030...  or so..  identify that..

there are  HUNDREDS of wiring diagrams on these newer cars.. each circuit takes about 3 or 4 pages to figure out just one wire..


why do the six minute test...  after the six minutes.. all the normal modules should be shut down..

if you disconnect the battery.. you shut some down in a slightly different fashion.. so it can fool you and cost you hours...

...

in a PINCH..   you can engine off.. disconnect one battery cable..   hook a test light across the cable to the terminal it was disconnected from.. start pulling fuses until it drops...

warning.. there are fuses inside the car/truck also...

after trying the ones under the hood..   you will want to pull the dome light circuit fuse first.. then verify the parasitic load is still there.. and not caused by the dome light circuit..

one fuse at a time...  ....


i would start with the fuel pump fuse.. see if the load drops...

next the retained power circuit fuse...

please..  post EXACT model data..  and engine.. and the fuse cavity number..   you can identify the fuse numbers with the owners manual...

AZ has many wiring diagrams for this..  post the fuse numbers that have the load.. i will try to link you the diagrams..

you may want to download graphic converter.. its free .. you can remove the transparency that sometimes shows up  with ONE click.. much cheeper than photoshop..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[348tripower]

Wayne,
There is not slot number for the fuse. 2003 Chevrolet k1500 5.3L. The fuse that shuts this timer/motor off is the IC/DIC. It is in the fuse block under the hood.
Don

[wayne petty]

thats probably the MOST complicated circuit in the entire car...

even more complicated than the fuel injection system...

on this diagram... do you see the IPC/DIC fuse... circuit number 2840... goes to cavity B11 on the instrument cluster...   i don't know off the top of my head what the 8S8 option is..    

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/24/13/0e/large/0996b43f8024130e.gif


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

this is where is gets complicated...  circuit 2840 heads into the electronics of the dash board...

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/24/11/fe/large/0996b43f802411fe.gif


but.. wait.. lets NOT throw the baby out with the bath water..

there are a LOT of things driven off this..  

do you have access to an advanced scan tool...   where you can check for not just codes.. but look at individual device that may or may not be functioning properly...

or can you mess around with the dash board controls and systems.. see
if you can find anything that stays on while the key is off.. and stays on.. when it should BE off..

i have NOT personally delved into dash board diagnostics on late model GM trucks..

if you are adventurous  .. pull the cluster...  start looking at the layers of circuit board if you can get to them from the back.. with a strong lens... look for cold solder joints first.. where the solder has cracked about half way up the solder puddle..


Please... DO NOT GO PROBING AROUND with a test light..   invest in a LOGIC probe..  they are about 16 bucks at HF..

http://www.harborfreight.com/computer-safe-automotive-logic-probe-98709.html

do you see the Class 2 serial data lines..   if you probe those with a conventional circuit tester.. you can let the smoke out of the wires..

this is some of the stuff that the ipc has plugged into it.. and some it controls..

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/24/10/af/large/0996b43f802410af.gif

this includes the buttons on the steering wheel...

http://www.autozone.com:80/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0996b43f8025ee27

http://www.autozone.com:80/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0996b43f8025eef6

http://www.autozone.com:80/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0996b43f8025ef8c

even the thermal cup holder gets involved some how in circuit 2840...

http://www.autozone.com:80/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0996b43f8025eef9

i don't recall if i mentioned to check the TSbs titles over at alldatadiy.com

[wayne petty]

this is the kind of problem a LOW amp current probe is for..

look at the low amp probe on this site..

http://aeswave.com/

direct

http://aeswave.com/Products/Product.asp?i=59

this will plug as you will read into any digital volt meter so you can clamp it around various wires to locate the ones that are active..

we know which power wire has load still on it...

this may narrow it down..  and you may find the investment in the current probe a good deal.. i have a larger version. but have always wanted one of the small ones...

oh.. here is the direct link to the TSBs..  there are more on the link...

http://alldatadiy.com/TSB/11/031136fY.html

2003 Chevy Truck K 1500 Truck 4WD V8-5.3L VIN T Recall and Technical Service Bulletin Titles

TSB Number & Issue Date      TSB Title
04007B NOV 05    Recall - Tailgate Support Cable Inspection/Replacement
05037 JUL 05    Recall - 2nd Row Center Seat Belt Loop Modification
04038 SEP 04    Recall - Child Restraint Anchorage Non-Compliance
04004 JUN 04    Recall - Brake Hydroboost Relief Valve Seal Defect
03001 JAN 03    Recall - Windshield Adhesion Non-Compliance
TSB Number & Issue Date      TSB Title
02059 DEC 02    Recall - Emissions, Spark Plug Replacement
TSB Number & Issue Date      TSB Title
11046 APR 11    Campaign - HVAC Blower Not Functional Runs Continuously


07187C MAR 09    Campaign - Instrument Cluster Warranty Extended

wow.. look at this...  call the dealer..  with the VIN.. the date of production off the door..    

08089C NOV 08    Campaign - Deactivation Of Analog OnStar(R)
03011 MAR 03    Campaign - Keyless Entry System Inoperative


02066 DEC 02    Campaign - BCM Reprogramming for Battery Drain


TSB Number & Issue Date      TSB Title
03-03-09-002D APR 11    Suspension - Rear Leaf Spring Slap Or Clunk Noise
00-03-10-002F APR 11    Wheels - Chrome Wheel Staining/Pitting/Corrosion
03-08-48-006H APR 11    A/C - Window Defroster Contact/Tab Repair Information
04-07-30-037E APR 11    A/T - Dexron®(R)-VI Fluid Information
05-02-32-008C MAR 11    Steering - Lack of Power Assist At Low Speeds
10-08-50-003A MAR 11    Restraints - Driver/Passenger Seat Head Rest Information
99-08-51-007E MAR 11    Wheels/Tires - Refinishing Aluminum Wheels
11-00-90-001 MAR 11    Engine - GM dexos 1 and dexos 2(R) Oil Specifications
02-07-30-052G MAR 11    A/T - Fluid Oil Cooler Flush
99-08-51-001B MAR 11    Body - Paint-Less Dent Repair Recommendations
06-08-43-003C FEB 11    Glass/Body - Windshield Wiper Performance
09-04-19-002A FEB 11    Drivetrain - Excessive Effort When Shift 2HI to 4HI
09-09-40-001A FEB 11    Restraints - Seat Belt Warning Lamp On/Buckling Issues
01-08-42-001H JAN 11    Lighting - Exterior Lamp Condensation and Replacement
05-08-46-004C DEC 10    OnStar(R) - Number Incorrect/Incorrectly Assigned
06-08-50-009F DEC 10    Restraints - Passenger Presence System Information
03-07-29-004G DEC 10    Manual Transmission - M/T Operating Characteristics
05-03-07-009C DEC 10    Steering/Suspension - Wheel Alignment Specifications
09-06-03-004D DEC 10    Electrical - MIL ON/DTC's Set By Various Control Modules
07-08-49-020D DEC 10    Instruments - IPC Odometer Programming Reference Guide
01-08-51-003B NOV 10    Body - Application of Anti-Corrosion Materials
04-06-04-054B NOV 10    Engine Controls - Aftermarket Accessory Usage
06-03-09-004C NOV 10    Suspension - Squeak Noise from Rear of Vehicle
08-07-30-035B NOV 10    A/T - Water Or Coolant Contamination Information
02-03-10-001E NOV 10    Tire/Wheel - Spare Tire Is Non-Matching To Other Tires
05-06-04-022G OCT 10    Fuel System - TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline (Canada)
10-08-45-001B OCT 10    Electrical - Information For Electrical Ground Repair
10-02-33-001A OCT 10    Steering/Suspension - Pitman Arm Shaft Seal Service Kit
10-08-44-006 OCT 10    Navigation - Report Missing/Inaccurate Nav. Map Info
02-06-04-037I SEP 10    Emissions - MIL ON/DTC P0446 Stored In ECM
00-08-48-005D SEP 10    Body - Vehicle Glass Distortion Information
04-08-50-006D SEP 10    Interior - Seat Cover Wrinkle/Crease/Burn Info
10-08-98-002 AUG 10    Body - Drilling High Strength Steel Using CryoCobalt(R)
03-00-89-008E JUL 10    Body - Metal Body Panel Corrosion Protection
06-08-51-005A JUN 10    Body - Hem Flange Sealer For Corrosion Protection
03-08-98-002B JUN 10    Body - Squeeze Type Resistance Spot Welding/Equipment
99-09-40-005F JUN 10    Restraints - Extender Availability For Seat Belt
02-08-42-001D JUN 10    Lighting - Headlamp Polycarbonate Lens Damage Prevention
06-03-10-010A JUN 10    Wheels - Changing Procedures/Precautions
10-00-89-010 MAY 10    Locks - Key Code Security Rules and Information
07-08-49-015D MAY 10    Instruments - Odometer/Hour Meter Programming Procedure
00-03-10-006F MAY 10    Wheels/Tires - Tire Radial Force Variation (RFV)
04-06-01-029E APR 10    Vehicle - Engine Crankcase and Subsystems Flushing Info.
05-03-10-003F APR 10    Tires/Wheels - Low Tire/Leaking Cast Aluminum Wheels
04-03-10-001F APR 10    Tires/Wheels - Tire Puncture Repair Procedures
08-03-10-006C APR 10    Tires/Wheels - Tire Slowly Goes Flat/Warning Light ON
05-03-10-020C APR 10    Wheels/Tires - Use of Nitrogen Gas in Tires
06-08-44-012E APR 10    Navigation System - Software/DVD Update Program
10-08-110-001 MAR 10    Interior - Proper Use of Floor Mats
08-08-64-011A FEB 10    Mirrors - Heated Mirrors, Defrosting Time
00-07-30-009D FEB 10    A/T - Goodwrench® Transmission Replacement
01-07-30-042F FEB 10    A/T - 2-3 Upshift or 3-2 Downshift Clunk Noise
00-06-01-026C FEB 10    Engine - Intake Manifold Inspection/Replacement
04-01-38-010A JAN 10    Air Conditioning - Diagnose A/C Low Pressure Switch
09-03-10-017 DEC 09    Wheels/Tires - Replacement Wheel Weight Information
99-04-20-002F NOV 09    Drivetrain - Clunk Noise Shifting From PARK Into Gear
06-08-64-001B OCT 09    Body - Side Window Chipping Information
05-03-08-002C OCT 09    Suspension - Shock Absorber/Strut Leakage Information
06-08-111-004B SEP 09    06-08-111-004B - BULLETIN CANCELLATION NOTIFICATION
09-08-48-006 SEP 09    Body - Stain/Film On Windshield Glass Perimeter
04-06-04-047I AUG 09    Fuel System - 'TOP TIER' Detergent Gasoline Information
06-02-32-013B AUG 09    Steering - Power Steering Pump Replacement Tips
03-03-10-007E AUG 09    Wheels/Tires - OE Tire/Wheel Characteristics
99-08-64-016C JUL 09    Body - Maintaining Exterior Weatherstrip Appearance
08-06-01-008A JUL 09    Engine - Drive Belt Misalignment Diagnostics
07-06-01-016B JUL 09    Engine - Noise/Damage Oil Filter Application Importance
08-03-10-004A JUL 09    Wheels/Tires - Accessory Wheel & Tire Information
05-08-51-008C JUN 09    Body - Bumps or Rust Colored Spots in Paint
08-08-42-005B JUN 09    Lighting - Headlamp Warranty Replacement Guideline
99-01-39-004C JUN 09    A/C - Musty Odors Emitted From (HVAC) System
08-08-42-005B JUN 09    Lighting - Headlamp Replacement Information
06-08-44-015B MAY 09    Audio System - Noise When Using Portable Playback Unit
02-08-44-007D MAY 09    OnStar(R) - Negative Impact of Cloth/Vinyl Roofs
03-05-25-007D MAY 09    Brakes - Low Speed ABS Activation/No DTC's Set
09-04-19-001 APR 09    Drivetrain - Whine or Click Type Noises from Front Axle
09-08-46-001 APR 09    OnStar(R) - Generation 6 Service Procedures
08-03-10-005A MAR 09    Wheels/Tires - Chrome/Steel Valve Stem Cap Precautions
00-05-22-002L MAR 09    Brakes- Disc Brake Warranty Service And Procedures
09-08-48-002A MAR 09    Body - Marks/Stains on Windshield When Wet
04-05-25-002E MAR 09    Brakes - ABS Lamp ON/DTC's C0265/C0201/U1041 Set
08-08-44-010F MAR 09    Navigation Radio - Diagnostic Tips
08-03-08-003A MAR 09    Drivetrain - Gen II Vs. Gen III Wheel Hub Changes
02-08-98-002C FEB 09    Body - Hem Flange Rust Repair Information
01-07-30-036H JAN 09    A/T Control - DTC P0756 Diagnostic Tips
07-08-98-001A JAN 09    Body - Non-Approval of Clipping For Collision Repair
00-00-90-002J JAN 09    Tires - Correct Inflation Pressure Information
07-08-64-022B JAN 09    Instruments - Unnecessary Park Assist Mirror



General Motors has decided that certain 2003 model year Chevrolet Silverado, Tahoe, and Suburban; 2003 model year GMC Sierra, Yukon, and Yukon XL; and 2003 model year Cadillac Escalade, Escalade EXT, and Escalade ESV vehicles equipped with Quadrasteer (NYS), Autoride (Z55), or Vehicle Stability Enhancement/StabiliTrak (JL4) may have the potential of exhibiting a battery drain condition. An anomaly in the operation of the steering wheel position sensor may keep the Body Control Module (BCM) from shutting down when the key is in the OFF position. The resultant 3.5 amp draw/load on the battery could possibly discharge the battery to the point where the battery will not have sufficient amperage to start the vehicle.

[wayne petty]

a few more things....

you might want to try to get a

GM Vehicle Inquiry System Summary (GMVIS)

that is like a build sheet.. and what has been replaced under warrantee.. or recalls that have been fixed..

campaign fixes seem to NOT be free..   i have never had to deal with this issue..

there may be other ways to get your PCM reflashed ... there are a LOT of scan tools that can do that now..  none are cheep.. and it has to be done right..   and as i understand.. with a POWER Supply attached to the battery to keep the voltage up and stable...

NOT always a charger as some have ripple in the DC..    you don't want the battery discharging while in mid process of reflashing the computer..   it won't be good..

[rooster]

Maybe somebody knows. When we shut this thing off we can hear a timer running.
Thanks,
Don

I have a 95 GMC 1500, when I turn the key off I hear a clicking sound, it comes from behind the glovebox area on mine. (common problem)

What caues this is a broken plastic gear in the blend door controls, in my case the sound (CLICK CLICK CLICK........) starts when I turn the key to ON position, but then gos away about a minute later, it will do exactly the same thing when I turn the key OFF also.

Might this be what you are calling a timer?

I think the operation of the blend door is being commanded by the computer to make the door rest in a certain position.

It does not run my battery down.

Just guessing!!!