Best Ford caliper for 11" rotors on Mus II IFS

enjenjo · February 17, 2004, 01:56:37 AM

Quote from: "Darkman"That makes sense. A reasonable simple spacer that can't fall out. Did you put a dab of sealant to hold it from (trying to turn slightly sideways)* or is it tight enough not to worry. I thought the spacer was thick but it is even thicker than I thought.

It's tight enough not to be a problem, but a dab of high temp silicone wouldn't hurt.

Quote from: "Darkman"Why the transmission question? Now I'm curious. LOL

Seemed like a lot of motor to be running a Fordomatic LOL It was just curiosity. I knew about adapting an FMX, just wondered if there was something else.

Quote from: "Darkman"*I had to edit my post. It seems that the single word I chose for (trying to turn slightly sideways) was seen as bad. The word co**ing apparently is banned. I thought it was a mechanics term not something obscene. Is there a list somewhere of banned words?

The net nanny is set awful tight right now, we may be able to change that, fatcat will know for sure. You think C-o-c-k-i-n-g was hard, try to post Van D-y-k-e road, there is no synonym for that LOL

Darkman · February 17, 2004, 05:22:33 PM

The 65 -67 Kelsey Hayes Ford caliper uses pucks that are 1 5/8ths while the Lincoln has pucks 1 15/16ths. The Lincoln is a 4 puck design too.

The 75 - 80 Granada rotor the 11" one isn't. It is listed as 10 3/32 in the NAPA brake catalog. I did find a bunch or rotors listed width about 11 3/4ths diameter but the hub is about 9/16ths taller than the stock 9" Ford rotor. Remember that you have to use a spacer on the GM rotors because they are taller too. The GM hubs are 4 21/64ths tall compared to the 4 34/64ths on the 11 3/4ths Ford rotors compared to the Mus II which is 3 29/32nds. A 13/64ths difference between the GM and 11 3/4ths Ford rotor. Almost a 1/4" and that might just mean you need a 1/4" thicker spacer or it might mean that the spindle just isn't long enough to do it. They Fords all use the same oil seal and some of them 70 - 73 use the same bearings. All in all some interesting findings but nothing conclusive yet. It seems to point to a possible 11 3/4ths rotor that may fit the Mus spindle. I'm not sure how rotor height is measured yet. What do you think?

OK I just went to NAPA and the Granada rotor is 11". Their Reference Illustration Guide shows it at 11 1/32. I measured one and it is that. Still if I can get a 3/4" larger rotor that is more mechanical force and I will continue to look into it.

enjenjo · February 18, 2004, 12:41:41 AM

71 Full size Ford and Mercury have a nominal 12" rotor that will fit a Mustang spindle. It also has a 4 1/2" bolt pattern. The rotor measures 1.125 thick, which is the same as a 12" GM rotor, so no spacer is needed for the pads. You do need a GM caliper made for Full size cars or Pickups, because the ones for smaller cars looks the same, but is made for a 1" thick rotor. The part numbers are Bendix 5060 and 5061 for the calipers, and 141016 for the rotor. The caliper mount is the same as the thinner calipers used in some of the kits.

I believe for 12" rotors, you are on your own for caliper brackets.

Darkman · February 18, 2004, 08:09:16 PM

Enjenjo,

That sounds like the same rotor I have been checking out. On paper it looks good but until I can get one in my hands........... Same inner and outer bearings and oil seal as the Mus II. The overall height is different. The Mus II is almost 4" and the large Ford is almost 4 1/2" I don't have a clue where the height difference plays into the fit maybe none. If the bearing spacing is the same I only have to worry with backspacing on the rotor. Are there no Ford rotors that are adaptable. I need to look at the thickness of the 99 - 2001 Mustang rotor. They use a twin piston caliper that would easily mount to the Mustang II spindle. You stated that it WILL fit. I gather that you know about this. Can you elaborate? You have been a lot of help and I appreciate it.

Fat Cat · February 18, 2004, 11:01:54 PM

Quote from: "enjenjo"
Quote from: "Darkman"*I had to edit my post. It seems that the single word I chose for (trying to turn slightly sideways) was seen as bad. The word co**ing apparently is banned. I thought it was a mechanics term not something obscene. Is there a list somewhere of banned words?

The net nanny is set awful tight right now, we may be able to change that, fatcat will know for sure. You think C-o-c-k-i-n-g was hard, try to post Van D-y-k-e road, there is no synonym for that LOL

I went in and edited the word filters today. There should be no problems with those 2 words again. As enjenjo says it is real tight right now and if you have a problem with a word let me know so that I can fix it. It appears to be replacing word that don't even appear in the list so I have some work to do on that.

enjenjo · February 19, 2004, 12:35:48 AM

Quote from: "Darkman"Enjenjo,

That sounds like the same rotor I have been checking out. On paper it looks good but until I can get one in my hands........... Same inner and outer bearings and oil seal as the Mus II. The overall height is different. The Mus II is almost 4" and the large Ford is almost 4 1/2" I don't have a clue where the height difference plays into the fit maybe none. If the bearing spacing is the same I only have to worry with backspacing on the rotor. Are there no Ford rotors that are adaptable. I need to look at the thickness of the 99 - 2001 Mustang rotor. They use a twin piston caliper that would easily mount to the Mustang II spindle. You stated that it WILL fit. I gather that you know about this. Can you elaborate? You have been a lot of help and I appreciate it.

The caliper that fit the same full size ford and Mercury will work, and is fairly easy to adapt. There is a C shaped adapter that bolts to the spindle, similar to a Mustang II bracket. All you would have to do is adapt it to the Mustang spindle. you might look at F100, and F150 pickups too, they had a stamped steel adapter for the caliper that bolted to the spindle, you might be able to rework one of them.

Darkman · February 19, 2004, 07:07:30 PM

Enjenjo,

That is really good news. I was under the impression that the Ford calipers required a slide in the Caliper bracket. I'm familiar with the large and small GM caliper and the 99 - 01 Mustang calipers which only require two bolts to mount and the slide is part of the caliper and not the caliper bracket.

Darkman · February 19, 2004, 10:04:01 PM

OK I can't use that rotor on the Mus II spindle. The distance/height between bearings is about a 1/2" to far. The clearance on the backside between the rotor and the spindle is good. The backside of the outer bearing race starts just before the threads start on the spindle for the spindle nut. The only way that ican see it working is to deepen the outer bearing pocket by 1/2". There is enough metal on the rotor to do that but I'm not sure about upsetting the loads on the bearings. you would effectively be moving the wheel load more to the outer bearing which is the smaller of the two. I don't think there is enough room to take 1/4' off each side but there might be. I haven't given up but it is looking poor on the 12" rotor.

enjenjo · February 20, 2004, 12:39:23 AM

Quote from: "Darkman"OK I can't use that rotor on the Mus II spindle. The distance/height between bearings is about a 1/2" to far. The clearance on the backside between the rotor and the spindle is good. The backside of the outer bearing race starts just before the threads start on the spindle for the spindle nut. The only way that ican see it working is to deepen the outer bearing pocket by 1/2". There is enough metal on the rotor to do that but I'm not sure about upsetting the loads on the bearings. you would effectively be moving the wheel load more to the outer bearing which is the smaller of the two. I don't think there is enough room to take 1/4' off each side but there might be. I haven't given up but it is looking poor on the 12" rotor.

I have done this in the past, sinking the outer bearing. One thing you can do, is use a larger bearing with the same ID as the stock one, this way you get more load capacity, and usually a better seat for the outer bearing. There are also much thinner castle nuts available, or you can make your own, that may gain some more room.

FWIW, I did adapt a pair of Crown Vic spindles to a Mustang front end one time. A bunch of work, so much that I don't see doing it again, but it can be done.

Darkman · February 22, 2004, 07:09:37 PM

Can you decribe the procedure and equipment as well as cost to sink the outer bearing? Can you remember which bearing you used. I like the idea of a larger bearing. Thanks for your help.

enjenjo · February 22, 2004, 07:33:17 PM

I have a lathe, so I just chucked the rotor into the lathe, and indicated the bearing bore to center it. I don't have a bearing number, I just looked in a bearing spec book, and found one that had the same ID, and was about .100 inch bigger OD. You have to watch the thickness of the bearing too. I bored the hub .003 smaller than the bearing OD, and in this case about .500" deeper. You may have to bore the hub cover bore out to to fit available hub covers if the bearing is much bigger.

I was fitting a Pontiac 8 bolt drum/hub to a Chevy spindle, so none of the dimensions are of any use to you, but you get the general idea.

Darkman · February 22, 2004, 09:35:21 PM

I'm wondering if a rotor will be as easy as a drum to chuck in a lathe. I'll probably have to first true the OD of the rotor. Once it is true I can see it working in a lathe chucking on the inboard rotor face and OD. That also means I'll need a 12" lathe.

enjenjo · February 23, 2004, 12:05:08 AM

I chucked off the inner bearing race, so as long as you can swing 12" you will be ok.

I checked the bearing specs, and your outer bearing is a set 12 which has an ID of.8656, and OD of 1.7810. That is the only bearing listed in my catalog with that ID, but there is an alternate cup that has an OD of 1.8710 if that helps. That would be set 16. You might find a bearing in an industrial catalog that will do what you want. Or you can make a spacer to use a bearing with a larger ID on your spindle.

Darkman · February 23, 2004, 12:23:43 AM

I don't have a lot of lathe experience. I was afraid chucking off the inner bearing seat would not be safe (lot of weight there). Was it a three or four jaw chuck? I'm trying to get a bearing specification catalog. useing a larger ID bearing and placing a sleeve on the spindle is an attractive idea. I gather from what you where saying that a larger OD would allow a larger overbore from the original eliminating the task of matching the original. The sleeve and a larger bearing sounds good. I need to check the rotor thickness and try to determine how much larger I can go and be safe and not weaken the rotor. Probably the few thousands I'm talking about is really not enough to wory about.

enjenjo · February 23, 2004, 12:35:10 AM

A three jaw chuck will work, a four jaw is easier to set true. As long as it's balanced, and you don't take too big a cut, chucking from the inside works fine. With a four jaw chuck, you can chuck on the outside of the hub, and set it on center with an indicator.