Best Ford caliper for 11" rotors on Mus II IFS

Darkman · February 15, 2004, 07:12:42 PM

I have a Mus II front suspension and plan to add the 11" Granada rotors which is a bolt on no mods required. I want to use a Ford caliper that will have similiar stopping power to the LARGE GM caliper that most kit makers sell. Which Ford Caliper would you chose and why. One possibility that I am exploring is the four piston Kelsey Hayes that was used on the early 65 - 67 GT Mustangs. This was also available without the power booster. I plan to not use a power booster more for keeping under the hood as stock looking as possible than anything else. Another is the 99 Mustang twin puck Caliper that I have seen installed on a Granada spindle. Out of all the Mustang calipers and other Fords which caliper is the best and do you think it could be adapted to the Mus II spindle?

enjenjo · February 15, 2004, 07:59:36 PM

What would be the matter with a Granada caliper?

I am not a fan of the old Mustang 4 piston caliper, they were a high maintainence item, very prone to leaks.

A properly engineered brake pedal will make use of the Granada caliper manually possible, you want a pedal ratio of about 6 or 7 to 1.

By the way, Ford never made their own calipers, they were made by Kelsey Hayes, who also built them for AMC and Studebaker, or Bendix, who also used them for AMC

rooster · February 15, 2004, 08:17:00 PM

You might try CH Eng! http://chassisengineeringinc.com/pinto%20mustang2.htm . I used there calaper adapter for G rotors, issues that came about was that the front end width changed ! I used sugested calaper and the 37 ford coupe stops on a dime! Doing there sugestion I got to keep stock MII brake hoses, thay also mount in stock location! Brake hoses around the front springs can be a issue!!!!There is a ton of this information in old RRT archives.
hope this helps
Denny

Darkman · February 15, 2004, 09:04:17 PM

Enjenjo,

The Granada caliper might be great. I guess I need to be more specific. The adds say that by using the Lage GM caliper you have 65% greater braking than the stock MUS II caliper. I want that or better. There are several caliper adapters out there but the ones I have seen for Ford calipers are advertised as a marginal upgrade from the Mus II Caliper. I just figure that there is a Ford caliper out there that would give me equal or better braking than the Large GM caiper.

Rooster,

What caliper is that? Is it GM or Ford?

paul2748 · February 15, 2004, 09:31:42 PM

I would suggest getting the bracket from one of the outfits that deal in brake conversions. One specifically I like because they have good service and well engineered parts is Engineered Components (860-872-7046). I have there 11 inch conversion on my 48 and in over ten years never had a problem with their products. They use the GM calipers - as a Ford freak I have no problem using the GM caliper because they work well. Don't limit yourself by insisting on having ford calipers.

enjenjo · February 15, 2004, 10:04:26 PM

QuoteDon't limit yourself by insisting on having ford calipers.

That was my point, there are no "Ford" calipers, there are bendix calipers made for Ford, but truth known, the GM foundry casts many of them for Bendix. Same with steering boxes, they are cast in the GM foundry, machined and assenbled by Saginaw, and sold to Ford.

Darkman · February 15, 2004, 10:24:19 PM

That makes sense and I understand that concept just like the Pontiac Super Duty hood scoop actually came off a Ford dumptruck. Are you saying that the Large GM is the best caliper and No Caliper USED on a Ford will be as good.

Paul I hoped I wasn't limiting myself. I assumed that the use of GM calipers was purely a economical one. More of them equals cheaper prices equals more profits on their kits.

I need to get my brake books out and research it a little. I was thinking that the twin puck late Mustang calip[er would possibly allow me to use a larger bore M/C. That is something I might want to do.

rooster · February 15, 2004, 10:47:17 PM

Quote from: "Darkman"Enjenjo,

The Granada caliper might be great. I guess I need to be more specific. The adds say that by using the Lage GM caliper you have 65% greater braking than the stock MUS II caliper. I want that or better. There are several caliper adapters out there but the ones I have seen for Ford calipers are advertised as a marginal upgrade from the Mus II Caliper. I just figure that there is a Ford caliper out there that would give me equal or better braking than the Large GM caiper.

Rooster,

What caliper is that? Is it GM or Ford?

Chassis Engineering has both kits for chevy or ford calipers to fit rotors to MII V8 spindle. I have the ford one , that way all wheels bolt patterns match! I got the kit to do this at a swap meet, got the rotors at a junk yard and had them measured and turned, got rebuilt rotors from auto zone! also got new brake hoses (MII)! The 11 inch rotorts can come from a Granada 1974-77,Monarch 75-80, Maveric 74-77! If using the FORD Kit from CE you can get the calipers from Thunderbird 80-82,Mustang 79-83,LTD 1983 only,Granada 81-82, Fairmont 79-79-83, Capri 79-83, cougar 80-82 Marquis 1983 only, Zephyr 79-83,. If you buy over the counter,Wagner part no. for the rotor is BD60431, for the calipers use Wagner part no,s F98962 and F98963. For the slide pin part no F98979.
Hope this helps
Rooster

enjenjo · February 15, 2004, 11:14:26 PM

Quote from: "Darkman"That makes sense and I understand that concept just like the Pontiac Super Duty hood scoop actually came off a Ford dumptruck. Are you saying that the Large GM is the best caliper and No Caliper USED on a Ford will be as good.

Paul I hoped I wasn't limiting myself. I assumed that the use of GM calipers was purely a economical one. More of them equals cheaper prices equals more profits on their kits.

I need to get my brake books out and research it a little. I was thinking that the twin puck late Mustang calip[er would possibly allow me to use a larger bore M/C. That is something I might want to do.

I'm not saying that, And I'm sure there are Ford calipers that will work. Matter of fact, my last car had Ford calipers on it, with a Mustang master cylinder.

The twin piston Mustang may be a good setup, I have no experience with it. A couple things to watch out for. If it is off a car with ABS, there are some differences in the seals, as the ABS actually retracts the pistons slightly going down the road to reduce drag. Also many of the new cars are set up with a diagonal split on the dual braking system, LF/RR, RF/LR, and may not work well with an older master cylinder. You will have to check this out carefully.

Another thing to consider, the braking power depends on the swept area, if the pads are the same size, a 12" brake is no more effective than a 10" brake. the only thing gained with the larger rotor is more time for the rotor to cool before the pad sweeps it again, and a slight reduction in effective rotor speed through the pads.

Darkman · February 16, 2004, 12:28:38 PM

I have found a couple more things out. The all Ford kit that Chassis Engineering sells uses the 80 - 83 calipers. These are the ones that are slightly larger than the stock Mus II calipers and nowhere as good as the large GM calipers.

First I've heard about the ABS retraction but it sounds like a very light residual pressure valve unless the ABS pump actually reverses to pull the pads back. I haven't heard of that. Maybe it is a mechanical pad retractor?

I'd like to know more about it.

As far as the diagonal system I don't think the caliper will know the difference. I really should have RE read my brake books before posting. There are a lot of calculations involved in determining the effectiveness of a brake system. I will have to look at the pad surface area TOO. If I ever figure this out I'll have a good ALL FORD system.

Here is the biggest drawback to the GM rotors. The GM rotor is thicker than the Ford and if you don't compensate by shimming behind the pads you will pop the seal out when you get to a low pad level. I'm not talking about metal to metal either. The shim has to be welded/tacked to the replacement pads. I'm not real happy about that. I know that I may never wear out a set of pads BUT after I'm gone I'm sure my wife will not remember that she has to get a special set or modify the Autoparts house ones. If someone else ends up owning the truck it would be nice for them to be able to buy stock pads somewhere. In the event of a pad failure you had better have a special set in the glovebox or forget repairing on the side of the road. I know these are extremes but they are reality too. I'd just like to find the Ford ones that will work GREAT. I really appreciate all the thought provoking information too. I guess I need to hit the parts books and study a bit. One thing is for sure. At the end I will have a answer. I just don't know if I'll like the answer.

enjenjo · February 16, 2004, 12:46:53 PM

QuoteThe GM rotor is thicker than the Ford and if you don't compensate by shimming behind the pads you will pop the seal out when you get to a low pad level.

I make a spacer that fits into the piston to hold it in place. That way standard pads fit.

Seems like you are doing the research and thinking that is needed when setting up brakes. It is much easier to get it right now than it is to fix it later.

enjenjo · February 16, 2004, 12:51:34 PM

QuoteCurrent project 1957 F100 312 4 bbl with automatic and McCulloch supercharger Mus II IFS and lowered rear

Just noticed your engine, what trans are you using, just curious.

Darkman · February 16, 2004, 01:07:57 PM

Hi Enjenjo,

I'm using a hybrid transmission. The main body will be a FMX. The Bellhousing will be a early 60's Crusie O Matic from a Y block truck (it has the ears for a front mount trans that matches my factory 57 crossmember). The front pump, flywheel and converter will be Ford O Matic. The Converter will be modified by Jim Paquet who specailizes in this type of converter. He modifys the stall and makes it stronger by welding the turbine fins as opposed to be punched and bent originally. This is a race proven combination and is fairly bullit proof even behind heavy cars and trucks.

Yes I am thinking every thing out as best I can. I'm interested in your built in shim. How thick is the shim actually? Any photos of the one you built.

enjenjo · February 17, 2004, 12:41:05 AM

No photos, but pretty simple. It is a round of aluminum the same diameter as the outside of the piston, with one end turned down to fit inside the piston. Seems to me the spacer was about .625 thick overall, with the full diameter part about .187 thick. The full diameter thickness is the same as the difference between a GM rotor, and a Ford rotor.

Darkman · February 17, 2004, 01:30:36 AM

That makes sense. A reasonable simple spacer that can't fall out. Did you put a dab of sealant to hold it from (trying to turn slightly sideways)* or is it tight enough not to worry. I thought the spacer was thick but it is even thicker than I thought.

Why the transmission question? Now I'm curious. LOL

*I had to edit my post. It seems that the single word I chose for (trying to turn slightly sideways) was seen as bad. The word co**ing apparently is banned. I thought it was a mechanics term not something obscene. Is there a list somewhere of banned words?