dodge a604 question

wvcab · February 06, 2011, 03:15:06 PM

2000 dodge caravan, it has been shifting rough, and last night, when the driver stopped to pick up a fare, it quit.

driver states he went in and found the person, it was running good, but know it wont go.

i hopped in it this morning, put it in neutral, and it free wheels. start and put in reverse, the engine changes pitch, give it some gas, it acts like it is laboring and wants to go, give it some more and it reverses, but acts like it is in park, huge clunks. try drive and it feels as if you were going forward and shifted into park... i dunno if this makes sense...

Crosley.In.AZ · February 06, 2011, 07:00:52 PM

A few items I kno about this trans axle is :

If oil is coming out of the electronic solenoid box that bolts on to the sid e of the case, the box is bad.

These trans also will develop lubrication problems with high miles and the gear train will destroy it's self

wayne petty · February 07, 2011, 12:20:42 AM

just curious... this is almost off thread...

but how many voyager type vans do you have...

when one gets totaled.. in a collision.. do you strip if of useable parts..

like removing the engine , transmission.. drive axles... computers... wiring harness for the engine and transmission..

so .. when you have some failure.. you can just swap in a known good unit.. so the car is not just sitting on the rack..

?

if you have more than just one or two of these with the electronic transmission.. you might want to get the boss to invest in the 2 ATSG A604 manuals... the original and the update...

there are a bunch of things that can do wrong

i do mostly the 3 speed non electronic versions as a rebuild... and the electronics on the 4 speed units... the electronic units will set trouble codes... but on the 2000 models.. i would think they are accessed via the OBD2 port transmission data stream that can be selected during scan tool set up...

there are so few electronic items...

the valve body..
the input sensor
the output sensor
the manual lever position sensor

all but the last are easy to change on the outside...

these units will default to second gear if there is any problem at all..

drivers will continue driving when they are defaulted to second gear... just speeding along winding the rubber band tighter and tighter... until the mouse falls out of the squirrel cage...

converters can fail...

clutches can fail...

the differential cross pins can fall out.. if the car is almost parked.. it may not break the case... if it comes out while driving.. the case will be damaged... there is a retainer kit for to prevent the cross shaft from self extracting...

wvcab · February 07, 2011, 04:26:33 AM

Quote from: "wayne petty"just curious... this is almost off thread...

but how many voyager type vans do you have...

i have 8

Quote from: "wayne petty"when one gets totaled.. in a collision.. do you strip if of useable parts..

like removing the engine , transmission.. drive axles... computers... wiring harness for the engine and transmission..

so .. when you have some failure.. you can just swap in a known good unit.. so the car is not just sitting on the rack..?

totaled, what is that

if they get hit, i rebuild them, but i do keep lots of spare parts on hand, but no transmissions or motors :cry:

Quote from: "wayne petty"if you have more than just one or two of these with the electronic transmission.. you might want to get the boss to invest in the 2 ATSG A604 manuals... the original and the update...

there are a bunch of things that can do wrong

i do mostly the 3 speed non electronic versions as a rebuild... and the electronics on the 4 speed units... the electronic units will set trouble codes... but on the 2000 models.. i would think they are accessed via the OBD2 port transmission data stream that can be selected during scan tool set up...

there are so few electronic items...

the valve body..
the input sensor
the output sensor
the manual lever position sensor

all but the last are easy to change on the outside...

these units will default to second gear if there is any problem at all..

drivers will continue driving when they are defaulted to second gear... just speeding along winding the rubber band tighter and tighter... until the mouse falls out of the squirrel cage....

this one is not in limp mode.

Quote from: "wayne petty"converters can fail...

clutches can fail...

the differential cross pins can fall out.. if the car is almost parked.. it may not break the case... if it comes out while driving.. the case will be damaged... there is a retainer kit for to prevent the cross shaft from self extracting...

hmmmm maybe... find out later...

wayne petty · February 07, 2011, 04:27:04 PM

just had another town and country come in...

customer had it rebuilt about 14 months ago.. by somebody i know...

its got 5 codes.... 36 ... 51, 52, 53 and i think 56...

he says it seems to just be working normally and then wants to jump into over drive...

he is going back to the transmission shop... i just wanted to see what codes it has...

i think if i end up with it tomorrow.. i will yank the valve body...

do a amp load test on the individual solenoid windings in the valve body with it sitting on the work bench with my power supply and digital volt meter... but i have to find a connector... i don't feel like trying to hold my terminals on it while watching the amp meter...

why am i thinking that its the valve body..

the EATX relays supply power to the positive side of the various valve body solenoid windings... the TCM pulls the individual circuits TO GROUND to make them operate.... if the windings short out internally.. they can turn themselves on when uncommanded...

i have ran across this before...

check your Private messages and drop me an EMAIL.... i have an acrobat file for you... its over 200 pages..

i was going to work on the T&C today..but i got stuck doing a transmission service on an explorer... had to get out the 24 inch breaker bar to bust loose the left cat to get at the pan... not a hard job.. but the weather here is terrible... there is somebody up in the sky shining down a bright light.. making things hot... its just short of 80 degrees right now... my eyes are still sore from getting a direct shot of brake cleaner in both of them yesterday morning.. not as bad as B-12 chem tool spray....

wayne petty · February 09, 2011, 05:35:21 PM

well.... an update on the town and country that i worked on today... a day after the transmission shop said they could not find any problems...

and the codes i pulled had nothing to do with the transmission.. he showed me the print out.. the transmission guy printed out the ENGINE CODES... via the connector under the hood.. near the air filter...

the transmission codes at least on the 92 i was working on are accessed with the special chrysler 300 cable that plugs in under the dash board right where the dash board ends and the toe panel begins.. a blue connector that tilts down...

what was strange... i got input and output speed sensor data... that looked good... but i could not get a VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR info..

i had the front end jacked up.. the parking brake on.. the owner belted in .. had him take it to 30 MPH.. sounded like 50MPH the vehicle speed sensor display while plugged into the transmission connector barely moved... but it did move...

i thought that was strange...

i grabbed the other connector and plugged my scan tool into the connector under the hood.. selected the engine data stream...

when i had him spin the wheels to 30 again.. i seemed to be like 50+..

and it was jumping around... i ask him.. i said 30... he said.. i know.. but the speedo does not work till i get it to about 50...

i am going to pull the speed sensor tomorrow ... as i can do it when its cold... since i have to go arm pit deep above the rear engine cross member from under the car... or pull the throttle body and upper intake... so i can reach it from the top... its on the back of the transmission above where the right hand inner CV joint plugs in...

i also noticed that when looking at the transmission data stream.. that the Transmission temp showed up as HOT... i have not researched that... coming up next.. i read that when the transmission gets HOT.. that the trans computer will lock up the TCC to reduce heat...

the repair section i have is over 200 pages long.. and the van owner did not bring the ATSG A604 manual i made him buy a few years back when he first got this minivan...

more to come... i just thought i would share a bit.. as there are probably a few of you with family members with these front wheel drive versions...

i also noticed .. a transmission called the A606.. or 42LE similar transmission.. electronic wise... but used in front wheel drive cars with north south mounted motors... the Cv shafts plug in the sides of the bell housing... it might be a neat transmission for a mid engine swap... if a decent motor could be found to bolt to the front... a 3.3 or perhaps a hot rodded 2.4 turbo motor..

wayne petty · February 23, 2011, 08:31:17 PM

well... i got a list of transmission controller numbers from a mopar reman parts catalog online...

matched the application and picked up a junk yard transmission controller .. swapped that in... no more problems..

seems the transmission temp displayed is calculated... and that took a call to atsg to verify it.. with the transmission controller showing temps from -99F to +210.. every 5 seconds i was not sure what to do..

the transmission computer looks at the engine coolant temp.. the ambient temp, the time since the engine was started to calculate a transmission temp... with that.. if it gets to the HOT .. it causes the transmission to lock up the TCC to reduce the heat build up from the torque converter..

as soon as i swapped in the used controller.. it shifted just fine...

the van owner did not come back after the test drive for me to check for codes... he had to go beat some drums someplace..

the reason ... i know at least a few of you may have a chrysler minivan or car that uses a similar control system...

wvcab · February 24, 2011, 12:01:08 AM

i am hoping to pull the transmission this weekend, pending no other disasters come my way....

it will free wheel, but locks up solid when placed in any gear(forward or reverse), and as you give it gas, you can feel/hear the load on the motor... then it will "leap" forward, and make a god awful clunk noise as it moves.

i have only done this twice, as i dont wanna break it any worse than it already is....

and wayne, thank you again for all the manuals you have located for me... how you find all this info, so quickly is beyond me.

wayne petty · February 24, 2011, 12:20:34 AM

question... do you have something like this... so you can support the engine on the inner fender mounting flanges..while you drop the transmission???

don't forget to inspect the mounts.. and the engine has to be recentered before finishing.. or the axles may be too long on one side... be sure to NOT loosen the struts from the spindle.. only the lower ball joint.. and after the battery is removed... stick the key in the ignition.. turn it to the on or run position... so you can be free to move the rack.. this allows you rotate the struts and spindles so you can get the half shafts out... be sure to pull the speedo sensor first... long reach over the rear crossmember..

http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-engine-support-bar-96524.html

as for getting info... i am really good at finding stuff on the net..

i have a good size repair manual library just across the room.. but i can usually find stuff online faster...

its just easier for me to read in print sometimes...

oh... please.. blow out the dirt behind the valve body before loosening the valve body... so you don't introduce any dirt...

you can get the diff cover off... as that really sounds like you have lost the cross shaft...

drop the rear engine crossmember.. or swing the engine forward to inspect it... there are retainer clips available...

before pulling the axles.. check for vertical play where they slide into the transmission...

wvcab · February 24, 2011, 09:01:07 PM

Quote from: "wayne petty"question... do you have something like this... so you can support the engine on the inner fender mounting flanges..while you drop the transmission???.

no, but i was pondering building something very simalar, earlier today

Quote from: "wayne petty"
oh... please.. blow out the dirt behind the valve body before loosening the valve body... so you don't introduce any dirt...

thank you

Quote from: "wayne petty"
you can get the diff cover off... as that really sounds like you have lost the cross shaft...

after studying the manuals and diagrams, this was where i was going to start looking...

Quote from: "wayne petty"
drop the rear engine crossmember.. or swing the engine forward to inspect it... there are retainer clips available...

before pulling the axles.. check for vertical play where they slide into the transmission...

348tripower · February 25, 2011, 07:41:26 AM

I have been following this thread. We have an A604 that will move forward for about 50 feet then stops. If you shut if off and try again it will do the same thing. Maybe a controller problem? It has been rebuild and the air check of the valve body tells us it is ok?

wayne petty · February 25, 2011, 12:49:16 PM

don... send me a PM with your email and what year... i have some large files that might help...

kb426 · February 25, 2011, 08:07:27 PM

Is there a sprag in these that could lock up everything?

wayne petty · February 25, 2011, 08:14:27 PM

the Differential cross shaft slides out of place... that can cause it to lock up hard... if it happens at speed .. it will tear up the case....

these are overdrive transmissions... and have multiple shells running inside each other...

i did forward the manuals. they do have all the trouble shooting in them...

most of my experience with these has been with electronics... sensors and valve body... there are millions of these out there.. with several different bell housing designs to mate with different motors..

on some forums... people have complained about them... told people to install the 3 speed transmissions... as they are built like a conventional torque flite 727 or 904...

this link has a PHOTO of the individual parts... not diagrams...

http://www.amtrans.nl/A604-_A606-_42RLE.pdf

this is something new to me...

http://www.altousa.com/images/new_products/np46.pdf

wayne petty · February 26, 2011, 12:42:53 AM

Quote from: "kb426"Is there a sprag in these that could lock up everything?

just saw this...

No problem found in valve body, manual valve was in place and pump is working.

Everything air checked fine.

Problem found. kit had one early solenoid gaskets and two late solenoid gaskets.

Found the two gaskets that were the same and installed two late gaskets on an early unit solenoid pack.

turned out the gasket provider did not put enough gaskets in the kit...

the installer did not match the gaskets... he found 2 that matched each other and used them... they were wrong...

i think i saw a TSB or something on this subject... i will check around...