Starters Starters Starters!!!!

[wayne petty]

looks right...

as for the rewiring...

i will have to go back and see if i missed something...

purple to S terminal...

top stud gets battery cable positive...  sometimes and usually more..

there has to be a way for the alternator output.. alternator sense , and the rest of the stuff inside the car to get power...

warning...  never ever drop these starters...

never ever whack with a hammer to get them to work..

they are filled with ceramic magnets that will shatter

[Charlie Chops 1940]

Looks like the ones I've used. Wayne's right on the wiring. Shouldn't be any different than what you have currently wired.

Charlie

[tomslik]

looks right...

as for the rewiring...

i will have to go back and see if i missed something...

purple to S terminal...

top stud gets battery cable positive...  sometimes and usually more..

there has to be a way for the alternator output.. alternator sense , and the rest of the stuff inside the car to get power...

warning...  never ever drop these starters...

never ever whack with a hammer to get them to work..

they are filled with ceramic magnets that will shatter

whatdoya mean "never whack 'em?"
beats pushing 'em in from the street and you're gonna replace it anyway or you wouldn't have to smack it...

[41woodie]

Do the mini-starters use metric bolts or SAE?

[Mikej]

I was thinking the original had 3 terminals and the minis have 2?

[phat rat]

41woodie, they use sae the length is the critical part.

mikej, you only use two anyway

[41woodie]

Mike, I believe that you are correct, the mini-starter solenoid does not have an "R" terminal.  However since most of these applications run an HEI distributor that terminal really isn't needed.

[GPster]

Mike, I believe that you are correct, the mini-starter solenoid does not have an "R" terminal.  However since most of these applications run an HEI distributor that terminal really isn't needed.

That would be a place to use the Ford style solenoid relay and get the coil power from there when cranking. GPster

[41woodie]

On my woodie I'm using a Ron Francis wiring kit. It uses a terminal on the circuit board to supply power to the HEI distributor.  That terminal is hot only when the ignition switch is in run or crank position.
As GPster stated the Ford solenoid that many use as a "hot start" cure would have the extra terminal to take the place of the missing "R" terminal on the mini-starter solenoid.

[BFS57]

Hello;
Well . . . * the luck! I had changed the starter just recently and everything seemed fine! I went to the dentists today, and when I got in to start it, it sounded kind of like before! It started and I thought nothing of it!
After the Dentists, I went to start the darn thing and all I got was Click-click-click! I looked at the battery cable, it was loose, so I cleaned it up, and re tightened it back on the battery! Still on start, same thing. I call one of the guys at work, he comes over, we jump it, same thing!! Gotta be the starter!
I finally had it, called a tow truck and had them take it to Ken's to fix that bastard once and for all!!!
Since I have owned that car, I have replaced around 5 or 6 starters! I know that rebuilds ain't worth squat anymore so lets see how Ken deals with the * thing!!

Bruce

[enjenjo]

I don't know your situation ther, but I have an auto electric shop nearby that will rebuild my core, and give me a 1 year warrentee. It seldom costs over $80.

[BFS57]

Hello;
UPDATE!
I had the car towed to Ken's garage. They informed me that the nose of the starter (showed me) had cracked! They looked at the flex plate, which was kind of OK so they proceeded to put a Delco rebuild on it. At first, it was just fine but about a week later, I was back to square one! Went to get some gas and almost couldn't get the * thing started! (this is after they changed the flex-plate!) So, I called them on my cell and said stay open, I'm bringing this POS back to fix the real problem!!!
When I got there, I couldn't find any place to park it except in Ken's back lot which had no spaces except where the lift was, so I drove it on the lift and shut the darn thing off!!! (I knew they wouldn't be able to start it!) So, the news is (Friday) they were looking into the problem but to call back Monday!
Evidently I guess I didn't really need a flexplate!!!
This "Problem" seems to manifest when the car gets extremely hot! We had a couple hot days here and thats what I think made this happen!
I'm getting tired of this starter problem!! We will see Monday whats going on!!!
OH! BTW, I found a rebuild place in Kissimmee (Moonlight) starter and alt. rebuilder! I'll try that next!

Bruce

[wayne petty]

i don't know how i missed out on all the current excitement...

when hot start problems rear their ugly head.... 10 minutes worth of volt meter tests are needed...

if you cannot get the engine to run.. this will take 2 people.. one to turn the key .. the other to monitor the digital volt meter...

set digital volt meter to 20 volts DC

1.  negative battery POST.... to engine block...   try to start the engine...
you should get less than 1.0 volts while the starter is attempting to crank..

1.  results while cranking or attempting to crank___________________    


2.  negative battery post to  body while trying to crank...  you should have no more than 0.02 volts DC... above 0.00... and less than 0.05...

2.   results while cranking_______________________


3.  positive battery post...   to the starter top terminal.... while cranking...
this should be less than 1.0 volts...

3.   results while cranking..._____________________


there are tests that can and should be done with the engine running and the headlights on...

negative post to engine block...  0.04 volts DC_______________

negative post to body..............0.02 volts DC________________

engine block to firewall............0.02 volts DC...______________

why... are such low voltage numbers expected...

the whole car should be grounded via the various ground cables...

electrons flow from negative to positive...  if you have a bad, loose, corroded,  or missing ground connection with enough size to carry the load... you will not have enough electrons to power the circuit...

so.. when you go to crank the engine...   the voltage difference between the negative battery post and the engine block is far more than what i like to see of about 1/2 a volt.. while cranking....  or less...   if you get more.. you have a loose ground  or  corrosion problems...  

a few minutes testing will usually show up where the problems are....

but again.. these tests are only accurate when there is a load on the circuit being tested...    if you get results of 0.00....   you have not tested at the proper locations... as there will ALWAYS be a voltage drop small enough to be measured with a digital volt meter...

please post the results from the voltage drop tests...

these are usually the first tests learned at electrical class. or autoshop.. but very seldom well understood right away....  sometimes years later comes the AHH HA!!! moment...

[BFS57]

Hello;
Thanks Wayne for that voltage explanation but I had them check for proper voltage and that wasn't the problem. The starter doesn't exhibit "normal" "hot starting" kind of problems it just sounds like the bendix isn't engaging the starter into the flywheel! The sound it makes is kind of a "grinding" kind od sound that gives way to engagement and start! It almost sounds like you are running a file over the end of a piece of metal only way louder!
I know one thing, my car isn't leaving until the problem is cured.
I did hear that they changed the starter bolts.
We will see today!

Bruce

[rumrumm]

I used a CVS starter after my offshore, chrome mini-starter began suffering from heat soak. CVS is a quality-built piece that is made in Canada. No problems with it after five years.