The cost of getting something done is unbelievable

[Fat Cat]

I know all about the costs the business owners have but 450 for 4 gas shocks is a little too much knowing that I can get them for about 20 each.

I just checked and Napa shows the socks fr your car at 28.05 each for the cheap ones and 50.00 each for Monroe sensa-tracs. Even at 28 each your looking at $84 per wheel for installation. The shop I work for charges $95 an hour for labor. So I would not get an hour per wheel to replace yours and it sounds like your are a lot more difficult than the ones I change regularly on motorhomes.

I just got my 99 Buick back from the shop. They repaired the wiring that a mouse ate out of one ABS sensor, demounted and remounted 2 tires and balanced said wheels. The bill for that was $150. I could have done the work for my self but I do not have the tools to diagnose the ABS problem. Therefore it was cheaper to pay soemone to do the work I did not have the tools for.

Another way to look at this is yes you can do the job yourself. But if you screw something up your going to have to repair it yourself. If you are paying someone to do the repair and they screw something up then they will have to repair the part they damaged. You are also paying for their experience as well. I have never diagnosed and repaired an ABS system on a 99 Buick, but my mechanic has done hundreds of them so it is much easier to get someone with experience to do the jobs I can't do.

[junkyardjeff]

I put shocks on the 84 crown vic I had about 10 yeras ago and I dont think it was all that bad and now I have a air saw so if the top nuts on the rear shocks dont want to come off I will saw them off.  I got prices from a little over 20 to around 35 at the discount part stores and a couple hours to put them on and it will be alot better then 450 so I will just do it myself,I know the shops have to make a certain amount of money to keep the doors open but not at what they want to do the job.

[Harry]

When I open the hood of a new car and can not see the engine, I would gladly pay someone any amount to work on it.

[junkyardjeff]

At this time I wont buy vehicles I cant work on,when I get older and cant work on them I will consider buying one.

When I open the hood of a new car and can not see the engine, I would gladly pay someone any amount to work on it.

[Harry]

I'm there now. 73 and still fooling with cars. I have a '51 Ford Vicky I'm putting a 351W in to. Not as fast as I would like, but it will get done.

[Rochie]

Guys,
there's a shop, just west of me on the outskirts of London, that specializes in Porches(not the kind you sit on.... the other kind.  They have a full chassis dyno WITH a wind tunnel to simulate "open road touring".
Hell, they only charge $256.00 per hour and they are lining up to get in!!!! I cannot fathom paying that kind of money for a tune up!

[40cpe]

I coordinate with truck shops for repairs on large trucks in my part-time job since retirement. Everybody involved in the repair gets a cut of the invoice. Once they figure out that you're 3 states away they start trying to tell you all the things wrong with your truck so they can run the bill up and get a bigger cut. You can boycott one shop and the next is the same way. It's unreal.

[Inprimer]

I posted the other day about a quote $99 to change/flush out brake fluid, I know it cost money to run a shop etc but my son& I did it in less than 45 min and a floor jack, 2 stands and less than $5.00 oF DOT fluid

[Uncle Bob]

This conversation is pretty typical of our society as a whole.  Having been around the creation and operation, both as setting up and training others as well as doing my own thing......mostly automotive related, in 35 years pretty much the same scenario always plays out.  I don't say that to lord myself over anyone, just to frame a context.  We're all of a mechanical mindset and pride ourselves on our DIY skills.  That's great.  But as I've often had to remind fellow business folk (as well as myself), a business isn't just about doing whatever the business appears to do.  Keeping the doors open over time involves different skills than.......in this example, turning wrenches.  

Statistically something around 80% of small business startups fail in the first 5 years, another significant number fail in the second 5 years of their life.  Good sized books have been written about all the reasons this happens regularly across the entirety of business types, so covering it in detail here isn't possible.  If I had to distill it down to one notion I'd say these failures come about for one simple reason.  A lot of people think the whole bottom line (or some large portion) of the invoice goes in the business owners pocket.  Even after I enumerated what a typical P&L looks like in the post above, folks either don't agree or grasp the entire concept.  I get that, you don't really know me that well, so what's my credibility?  And, you've never had to run a business so it's outside your personal experience.  And quite frankly you're normal that way, and part of a large majority.  

Are there crooked businesses out there that take advantage of their customers?  No doubt, but they are more often the minority in any market.  Only the most cynical person thinks it's most or all of them.  I'd bet most of you have some business, probably more than one, that you trust and recommend to others, just as you've learned there are some to avoid.  Again, pretty normal.

In moments of fantasy I sometimes wish I could wave a magic wand over someone who thinks a legitimate business is charging too much.  At that instant they would be transported to the bosses seat and be responsible for making the business stay alive to deliver it's product/service, and keep all the folks working there employed.  They'd learn first hand just what it takes, and it probably would change their views in ways no conversation like this can.  Well, actually, more than doing that to a regular person, I'd REALLY like to do it to some politicians, and watch as they get their butt handed to them.  Maybe then we'd hear less of that B.S. about government creating jobs (well, useful ones anyway).

[Mikej]

I have been in buisness for 25 years. What I know is most people can't fix their own stuff. If you can, thats good. I charge enough to stay in buisness so I can help those who can't. The ones who really get to me are the ones that try to repair things and leave it in a pile or tell me how and what to do when I get there. Especially on a Sunday afternoon emergency call. I don't argue about price what it is it is. If the other guy gets all the jobs, they won't be in buisness very long.
 I don't work on cars for a living so anything other than brakes and minor repair the mechanics do. I don't like spending an hour unhooking a fuel line because I don't have the right tool. Or whos idea was that. Or just because it fit there, did you really need to put it there. Its alot more enjoyable to work on my old car.

[chimp koose]

My wife and I run a small cleaning business as a side income. We have been in business 16 years. At one point we cleaned 50,000 sq.ft. every night with the help of 7 staff.Licensing ,insurance,CPP,EI, and other expenses are a big factor in costs. All in the space of about 6 months our workers compensation coverage cost increased 137% (with no claims ) CPP went up 50% and Employment insurance became a requirement,adding 4% to the cost of employees.At that point our profit margin was cut in half and  as employees moved on to other things (we mainly hired university students) we would let those cleaning contracts lapse. Now we operate with no staff, do nowhere near the volume , and make nearly the same income from the business. We have been without employees for 12 years  . When you are in business ,you are providing a service that people either can not do or would rather not do. If you do not charge enough to make a living at it ,YOU WON'T.As car guys it is sometimes difficult to understand shop fees for something we can do ourselves. One thing that I havent seen mentioned is the costs involved in training employees. As car guys many of us have either learned at work or learned on our own over the years.What I am getting at is that the experience /knowledge about cars you posses is a marketable commodity that you are undervaluing or dismissing when you look at labour costs. Your time is worth more than you may think. If you were the average person,how long would it take you to learn about tools ,rusty bolts ,limited access situations and the solutions to those problems.As a car guy what you consider common knowledge about cars is not all that common.You probably already own or have access to the space and tools required to do the job.Try starting the job from square one,no tools no prior experience /knowledge about what you are about to try and do. Then see if the quote on the job is more reasonable.I have taught shop for many years. Every once in a while an aspiring non-shop teacher would want to "do it himself" and save a pile of money! I would get frustrated phone calls to my home from "do it yourselfer's " THAT COULDN'T.  The worst one ended up with a broken wrist for his efforts. Leaf springs are an example of 'potential energy' mr. science teacher.I believe it is time to get off the soapbox ,remember ,you have skills . Don't undervalue what you can do.

[Carnut]

Heh, heh, a bit off topic, but oh the cost of learning from DIY.

Now I grew up in a single mother household with no male trainers around.

I got into the 'car thing' thru magazines and then quite back accident scored a job at a nearby garage as a 'gofor/apprentice' mechanic. I was a bit of natural for it at the time.

Anyhow later in life got married, bought a brand new house and put myself thru college. I am a bit of an academic type. No one has ever accused me of having common sense.

One day 'we' decided to finish the inside of our garage. We had the money and the will power, so we went and purchased the materials to finish it.

Doing the electricity was pretty easy and the insulation went up easy as well, although just a bit itchy.

Then came the sheetrock. I had never had anything to do with carpentry or construction work what so ever. I really barely knew which end of a saw to use.

Anyhow it looked simple enough, hold up the panel to the wall and hammer in some nails into the studs underneath.

But then came the point of panel too big to fit the space available and in consternation, How to cut the sheetrock to the correct size? Did I mention I have no common sense?

I could measure the space and then mark it off on the panel for 'cutting' to size, but I didn't have any idea how to get the panel 'cut' and neither did the wife. But the wife did know her brother was out of town on vacation and she had a key to his place and he had carpenter tools.

So we went over and 'borrowed' her bro's hand circular saw to 'cut' the sheetrock to size.

Back home, away I went 'cutting' the sheetrock to size and getting it put in place and being quite proud of myself in getting the job done.

Unfortunately the saw cutting made a mess of powder all over, but what the hay we could vacum that up. Then the saw was another matter, it was a bit harder to clean up.

Anyhow we took the saw back to bro's and considered it a job well done.

Then there was the phone call from the bro in law who was just a bit excited about 'WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS SAW?'

In consternation wife and I explained what we did as his eyes rolled and he groaned. Somewhat in exasperation Bro explained the actual proper method of scoring and breaking sheet rock to size and then the damage cutting 'rocks' with a saw blade would do to the sharpness of the blade.

Anyhow things were never quite the same with Bro In Law after that one.

Guess the moral of the story is that DIY on some things can be costly in several ways including relationships and that learning is a valuable commodity to be considered in any activity.

[BFS57]

Hello;
You know the old saying, "walk a mile in my shoes" All these points make you think that shop (small business ') expenses are higher than ever! And if the shop owner has a couple guys working for him, they have to make wages to live on.
Really, I just had my 57 chevy in the shop. oil was coming out from all over the place! They did the harmonic balancer seal, replace a ugly battered up oil pan, replace valve cover gaskets with perma seal, replace the rear main seal, shim the starter, then when they came in on monday, found a pool of trans fluid under my car and replaced the shifter lever seal, plus new pan gasket. Thats not all, when they droped the pan, they were greeted by the oil pimp pickup tube in the bottom of the pan as well as a non exhistant tube for the dipstick inside the motor. Quality work is really hard to find. finding someone that has some sort of quality work ethic is next to impossible, for all this, it took (around other jobs) 3 weeks and $975.00.
Now. the car runs really great and doesn't leak any oil!!!
Sure, I could do most of that stuff, but it seems as though that when I do it, it doesn't get the same effect! (my car doesn't like to be fixed)

Bruce

[phat46]

I have read all the post on this topic and I can understand what the business owners are talking about as far as overhead goes. I also don't begrudge a guy making a living by charging for his skills. What gets me is that one shop will charge so much more for the same work as another shop. I notice this mostly at the "chain store" places, but some local places are guilty too. I couldn't believe what people I know were paying for a simple brake job. A local shop I use from time to time that I believe is the best shop in town is way less expensive, like $90-$100 less for a brake job. This shop uses only good parts and all the techs are Certified. I know the owner personally and he is an honest man and makes a good living. He lives on three acres of waterfront property so I know he's making money. Some places are just charging way more money than the job is worth, but it seems people will pay the money to get a national "name" place to work on their car. Most people I know are clueless about their cars, if they are told something needs to be fixed they say "go ahead", and they pay whatever it costs. I know it's expensive to run a business, but if you have to charge 50% more than another profitable shop then you have to figure out how to lower your overhead, or maybe you're just overcharging folks......

[junkyardjeff]

The two shops I contacted for the shocks were chain shops but could not believe the difference in prices between the two,there is a local small shop I will contact just to see how much they will charge for installing the shocks but since I will have it up in the air to replace the Y pipe I will most likely do it myself.