58 Dually - towing

58Apache · June 13, 2010, 10:04:23 AM

I will be starting on my 58 1 ton Dually soon. I have a 72 3/4 ton frame I will be transferring the body over to in time. I am using the 72 frame to get me power steering and disc brakes.

I want to use the dually rear end, unless someone can convince me not to mainly for heavy duty use and cool heavy duty looks. As far as I know it's the original 58 rear end but can't confirm yet.

The 72 rear end looks to be good and I realize it may be easier to get parts? But it's not a dually.

I have a MIG welder and can splice frames, but it may be easier to move the dually rear end over to the 72 frame?

Right now it has a manual transmission and the gearing is such that I think about 50mph is top cruising speed. I have a TH400 I MAY put in it, but manual transmissions are cool in an old truck, but an automatic might make it a bit more "wife friendly".

Thoughts? Suggestions?

phat rat · June 13, 2010, 10:39:54 AM

Why not buy a newer dually rear-end with a little friendlier road gear. Another option would be a Gear Vendor OD behind the 4 spd

58Apache · June 13, 2010, 11:10:19 AM

I thought about a newer dually rear end. Would it fit the 72 frame without modification?

The Gear Vendors will break the budget. I need to keep this a low cost build.

GPster · June 13, 2010, 11:23:54 AM

Will dually wheels fit the '72 3/4 ton front end? I know they are all 8 lug but if they don't clear you will always be stuck carrying two spares. How about the other front end parts and steering? does the difference (is there?) in wheel ofset and tire height use a different steering box. I make more questions than I answer. GPster

Harry · June 13, 2010, 11:34:41 AM

Quote from: "GPster"Will dually wheels fit the '72 3/4 ton front end? I know they are all 8 lug but if they don't clear you will always be stuck carrying two spares. How about the other front end parts and steering? does the difference (is there?) in wheel ofset and tire height use a different steering box. I make more questions than I answer. GPster

I had a '78 Chev heavy 3/4 ton (8 hole rims) that I converted to one ton. I had to but adaptors for all four corners. Ford wheels are different from GM wheels. The bolt pattern is the same but the Ford wheels are "coin lock" or something like that. The bolt holes are countersunk on the Ford wheels. GMC are flat.
I sold the truck to a friend and he put the front clip on a '51 Ford short bus and the Chev rear end fit right on his rear springs.

enjenjo · June 13, 2010, 12:34:00 PM

With these adapters http://www.arrowcraft.com/products.php#adaptors you can install dually wheels all around on a 3/4 ton chassis. I can vouch for the quality of the adapters, I have been running them on the rear of my Ford vans for near 20 years, between one van and the other.

Steve and I have discussed this before, and He needs a slightly narrower track in the front. So installing the front dually wheels without adapters, or with a thinner adapter, might be the way to go, as it will move the tires in.

As far as ratios, the 72 likely has a 4.11 gear, no idea on the 58. With a 16" tire 3000 rpm should be good for about 65 mph with that gear, and a direct top gear in the trans. The options would be a OD 5 speed trans out of a later truck for a manual, or an OD auto trans.

The cab switchover is not a big deal, the front mounts may have to be modified slightly for spacing, but they are in the right place. Rear mounts may have to be moved.

GPster · June 13, 2010, 12:59:31 PM

I'm was just going back in my memory. I have a friend that has a junkyard and when he started it seems every cheap car that he got was out in the middle of a field somewhere. He gathered up "Totaled" pieces to buid a 4x4 wrecker and to make a frame long enough for a wrecker body he had a 1 ton dual wheel frame grafted on the back. To run the same wheels on the 3/4 ton front axel a local shop built a pair of steel adapters/spacers. That was probably about '80 on probably a '78 truck and it held up because his son now uses it as a yard truck for the business. GPster

phat rat · June 13, 2010, 06:52:42 PM

Quote from: "58Apache"I thought about a newer dually rear end. Would it fit the 72 frame without modification?

The Gear Vendors will break the budget. I need to keep this a low cost build.

I know that Gear Vendor is around $3000 new but you find them on Craigslist frequently. I had one for a Dodge 4wd last year that I picked up really cheap. When I bought it I was told it was out of a Chevy powered motorhome with a T-400 .

58Apache · June 13, 2010, 09:00:38 PM

Yep, will probably do as Enjenjo suggests in the front. I was just waffling on how I was going to do the rear and wondering what my options were or if anyone had any words of wisdom.

I hope to start this project in the next couple of weeks so if I could find whatever else I needed on Craigslist before then it would pay to keep an eye out for whatever I needed.

One thing I want to do is go with modern smaller diameter wheel size up front. Something shiny ...either aluminum wheels or chrome covers. Maybe 16 or 16.5 inch probably. So I am keeping an eye out on Craigslist.

Fat Cat · June 14, 2010, 12:30:12 AM

Quote from: "58Apache"Something shiny ...either aluminum wheels or chrome covers. Maybe 16 or 16.5 inch probably. So I am keeping an eye out on Craigslist.

Just some advice, from someone that deals with wheel covers all the time. Avoid them at all costs. They really are more trouble than they are worth. The rattle, squeak, and cause rust issues. In most cases they make checking air pressure difficult at best and impossible at worst. Which requires you to remove them to check the air or install extensions which adds a whole new set of problems. I can't tell you how many times I have had to remove a wheel cover because I was removing the valve cap to check the air and dropped the cap between the wheel and the simulator. I have also ran into a couple of situations where the bolts in the end of the axle have come loose letting the axle leak oil and it is not as easily inspected with a wheel simulator over the end of the axle.

If it were me I would go with steel wheels with no simulators or aluminum wheels. My preference would be the steel wheels powder coated as it is much easier to do a 6 wheel tire rotation. With aluminum wheels usually the inner 2 rear wheels are steel and the outers are aluminum. When you rotate the front to rear and rear to front you have to spend a bunch of time polishing the insides of the wheels which become the outside wheels when you rotate them. Some times you can't get all the stains out of the rim surface.

wayne petty · June 14, 2010, 01:41:13 AM

this is just out of far left field...

how about one of the various sizes of FAT singles to replace duals on the rear..

i don't know what size rims your truck currently has...

but i would think that a much later rear end with DISC brakes is called for.. perhaps something from a duel wheel van or truck with some serious stopping power..

and parking brakes.... in addition to the one on the back of your transmission.. if its still there..

perhaps a full floating dana 60 or 70 from a really late model.. with rear discs... a gm 14 bolt.. with rear discs...

beware.. some of the 3/4 ton stuff has semi floating axles... that has roller bearings in the end of the housing and C clips to retain them.. probably not the best idea.. probably not going to come in a dual rear wheel of anything.. but you knew this..

i was looking for the some nice FAT singles...

Harry · June 14, 2010, 10:20:39 AM

Stay away from 16.5 rims, the tires are getting harder to find.

phat rat · June 14, 2010, 02:02:11 PM

A Dana 80 is an even better rear.

OldSub · June 14, 2010, 05:21:24 PM

Quote from: "58Apache"I have a 72 3/4 ton frame

There were only two different rears offered on the '72 3/4-ton. An Eaton which aside from brakes and rear gears would be the side as under your '58.

Or a Dana which has a much better gear selection available.

If you have the Eaton AND it has 4.11 gears those are highly sought after in the old truck community. Advertise them somewhere like the Stovebolt swap meet and you'll sell them fast. No one wants the 4.57 which is most likely what you have if you have an Eaton in the '72 or the 5.14 under your '58.

I've seem the 18-inch dually wheels mounted on that same suspension, the guy simply put the covers from the outside on the inside. It didn't take much spacer to make it work.

In '72 Chevy used the same front brakes on both the 3/4- and 1-ton single wheel trucks. I've never researched the dually brakes.

I'm using a '72 IFS on a '54 GMC and go back and forth on the number of wheels to run. Going duals solves some problems but causes others.

Rrumbler · June 14, 2010, 06:07:47 PM

You should check an interchange manual, but I am fairly sure that if you can find a 3500 dually from '73 to '87, the rear axle will be a direct fit for your spring width, and the front spindles along with all of the brake and wheel stuff will swap, too. Best dually axle is a GM 14 bolt or a Dana 70 or 80. As was said, wheels are different from GM to Ford to Dodge, so be sure everything matches. As to "adapting", even the factory dually fronts use a wheel spacer to space the wheel out from the hub on most applications; those that Frank showed are good pieces.