Cowl Steering

[Old Blue]

I have done a bunch of research, and it seems that an early sixties or 70s Mopar steering box can be adapted to get cowl steering.

For my  fenderless 27 T bucket, the body will sit on the frame with no channel. The front axle will be a Magnum 4" drop beam mounted suicide.
I'm building hairpin radius rods.

The body is an original steel body so has opening doors.

I'd like to try the Mopar box and do a cowl steering setup to give me more footroom.

Anyone have any info you can provide on how to set these up ?

How do you determine where the box mounts and where the hole in the body is best placed ?
I am wondering about the location and pitman arm length ,travel and all that in relation to the hairpin radius rod as well as little things like being able to open the little roadsters driver door without hitting the pitman arm...

 
Also, how do you determine the length of the pitman arm ? I will be using early ford spindles and magnum steering arms.  

Any suggestions or solid help you can offer ?

Hope someone can educate me      .

Larry

[My52Chebby]

I have done a bunch of research, and it seems that an early sixties or 70s Mopar steering box can be adapted to get cowl steering.

For my  fenderless 27 T bucket, the body will sit on the frame with no channel. The front axle will be a Magnum 4" drop beam mounted suicide.
I'm building hairpin radius rods.

The body is an original steel body so has opening doors.

I'd like to try the Mopar box and do a cowl steering setup to give me more footroom.

Anyone have any info you can provide on how to set these up ?

How do you determine where the box mounts and where the hole in the body is best placed ?
I am wondering about the location and pitman arm length ,travel and all that in relation to the hairpin radius rod as well as little things like being able to open the little roadsters driver door without hitting the pitman arm...

 
Also, how do you determine the length of the pitman arm ? I will be using early ford spindles and magnum steering arms.  

Any suggestions or solid help you can offer ?

Hope someone can educate me      .

Larry

Hi Larry,

I just went to Street Rodder magazine's website because I remembered they did an article in a recent issue. I don't know if this is the actual article but it's a start.

http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0908sr_gas_alley_street_rods_cowl_steering_conversion_kit/index.html

My52Chebby

[Old Blue]

I have done a bunch of research, and it seems that an early sixties or 70s Mopar steering box can be adapted to get cowl steering.

For my  fenderless 27 T bucket, the body will sit on the frame with no channel. The front axle will be a Magnum 4" drop beam mounted suicide.
I'm building hairpin radius rods.

The body is an original steel body so has opening doors.

I'd like to try the Mopar box and do a cowl steering setup to give me more footroom.

Anyone have any info you can provide on how to set these up ?

How do you determine where the box mounts and where the hole in the body is best placed ?
I am wondering about the location and pitman arm length ,travel and all that in relation to the hairpin radius rod as well as little things like being able to open the little roadsters driver door without hitting the pitman arm...

 
Also, how do you determine the length of the pitman arm ? I will be using early ford spindles and magnum steering arms.  

Any suggestions or solid help you can offer ?

Hope someone can educate me      .

Larry

Hi Larry,

I just went to Street Rodder magazine's website because I remembered they did an article in a recent issue. I don't know if this is the actual article but it's a start.

http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0908sr_gas_alley_street_rods_cowl_steering_conversion_kit/index.html

My52Chebby

Thanks, and I appreciate your efforts. I came across that one and also found a thread over on the HAMB where they condemned it as being totally inadequate and poorly engineered to the point of being dangerous.

Apparently the Corvair box is too small and the way they mounted it leaves a whole lot to be desired.

Larry.

[enjenjo]

A couple things to consider, the longer the Pitman arm, compared to the steering arm, the faster the steering. This means, if you want a long Pitman arm for the look, then start with a slow ratio box. Much under 2  turns lock to lock on the steering is a bit twitchy.

I came up with an idea on how to make a cowl steering box out of most any box, where the length of the pitman shaft does not matter. You could even use a Vega box.

I will do a mockup tomorrow, and show you what it is.

[Old Blue]

A couple things to consider, the longer the Pitman arm, compared to the steering arm, the faster the steering. This means, if you want a long Pitman arm for the look, then start with a slow ratio box. Much under 2  turns lock to lock on the steering is a bit twitchy.

I came up with an idea on how to make a cowl steering box out of most any box, where the length of the pitman shaft does not matter. You could even use a Vega box.

I will do a mockup tomorrow, and show you what it is.

Sounds good  

[unklian]

Some of the oval track classes require a stock steering box, to "save money".   But everyone wants a quicker ratio, so some people run a "steering quickener".

http://howeracing.com/c-446-steering-quickener.aspx

They also work backwards, to slow the steering down. Just turn it around.
They come in 1.5:1 and 2:1 ratios.

So it is possible, to mount your cowl box higher,
use a longer pitman arm, and still have a reasonable ratio.

[GPster]

One of the other sites I visit has been talking about that lately. The suggestion there is Ford truck steering boxes starteing the Twin I Beam dates (64?). They have a long shaft between the box proper and the pittman arm. For the pittman arm to point down it is necessary to reverse the box which is a simple operation. Maybe the truck steering boxes will give you a slower steering action than a car box. I would think that those truck boxes might have the "Rag Joint" connection between the steering column and the box which is going to leave you having to make two mounts for the column and then a mount for the steering box. That would make it kind of busy in the cowl of a Model T. Following the idea of the long space between the pittman arm and the steering box proper maybe a '55 to '57 Chevy car. They are modifying newer power steering boxes for them to try to mimic that characteristic. Maybe a stock box from one of them will do the job for you. I would think one could be reversed and the column would be attached to the box. With a shortened column it would get you down to only two mounts (1 column, 1 box). Remember that the drag link arm on the spindle's length is part of the equation. If you want a long pittman arm it's effect can be partially cancelled by a long arm on the spindle. Additional length here might also enable you to make the drag link more paralell to the car's frame seeing that a Model t's cowl is not very wide. I'd lay all of these angles and lengths out so you can get them to work and so you can get the drag link roughly paralell to the ground. Remember on more thing. They say to lessen the chance of "Bump Steer" the length of the drag link and the length of the wishbone should be close. GPster PS I'm taking writting instructions from Wayne

[brucer]

thos esteering quickeners are high dollar units...  the steering unit itself is crazy priced. if i'm not mistaken i was looking at used items and they were near $800...

the corvair box can be used easy, its gonna be up to your fabrication skills and how sturdy you mount it... you'll definetly need some framework under the cowl area to make it sturdy enough..

heres a basic kit i found a while back that would get you started with a corvair box..http://www.gasalleystreetrods.com/Steering.html

[enjenjo]

Here is my idea, basically the same as the link Brucer posted.

You can do this with many steering boxes, even power assist. In some cases you will have to reverse the box to get it to turn the right way. Or, you could make a reversing mechanism in the steering shaft, you could also change the ratio there too. You can buy a steering quickener from Speedway for about $150. The length of the tubing on the first part of the adapter determines where the end of the Pitman shaft will be outside the body.

[zzford]

There is a mess of info on cowl steering on the HAMB message board. A lot of different boxes are used along with a number of mounting setups. I'd do a search over there.

[Glen]

I used a BMW steering box and it works great.....that being said, If I was to do it again, i would look at that mopar box.

Whichever you choose, the mounting brackets have to be strong and well supported, there is a lot of pressure on the box back and forth.

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[brucer]

also if you run the shaft completely out the side like most do, use a pillar block for more support on the longer shaft..

[Rochie]

Frank,
we just finished a dodge box for a 27 T coach.  A little different than what you posted.  We used the cut-off pitman arm spline on the box, welded a tube to it to get outside the body, with a flange welded to it, to bolt the pitman arm to. The machined pitman arm has a hole large enough to get a socket and extension through it to the nut on the splines.  To finish off the the hole we used a chrome spring cap.  Looks great, works great, and Glen is absolutely correct, there is a lot of torque on the box and it has to be braced REALLY well.

[Old Blue]

Frank,
we just finished a dodge box for a 27 T coach.  A little different than what you posted.  We used the cut-off pitman arm spline on the box, welded a tube to it to get outside the body, with a flange welded to it, to bolt the pitman arm to. The machined pitman arm has a hole large enough to get a socket and extension through it to the nut on the splines.  To finish off the the hole we used a chrome spring cap.  Looks great, works great, and Glen is absolutely correct, there is a lot of torque on the box and it has to be braced REALLY well.

Pictures, I demand to see pictures  

Larry

[unklian]

thos esteering quickeners are high dollar units...

$150
http://howeracing.com/p-7432-original-steering-quickener.aspx
http://howeracing.com/p-7433-stealth-hd-steering-quickener.aspx

Not outrageous if you really want one.