One more time on running air lines

[Dave]

Parker Hannifin and Weatherhead among others make a nylon plastic air line for trucks in up to 3/4" tube sizes. It's rated for 200 psi at 100 degress C in the larger sizes, much higher pressure in the smaller sizes. It uses compression fittings to connect. You might look into it.[/quote]

Im using 1/2 inch in my shop. Got it from work.. Im also using the push in fittings instead of the compression type. It works ok..



Dave

[Leon]

In my old shop I had the drier about 5' from the compresser and it hardly ever got any liquid in it but I always had water at the outlets.  In my new shop the drier is on the other side of the shop and then the air gets distibuted from there, I drain the tank and the drier (that now fills up) and have never seen anything out of any of the outlets.   I have a second drier at the paint/powder outlet but have never seen any moisture in it.  The drier has to be in cool air, the one I had close to the compresser was just passing water vapor since the air was too warm.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

there are safety devices for the use of PVC air lines .  

see photo where a 90* fitting feeds into a "T" fitting

[jaybee]

there are safety devices for the use of PVC air lines .

Gosh Cros, that's incredibly high-tech.

Didja ever hear the story of how NASA spent millions of dollars designing a pen that would write in zero gravity?

The Soviets used a pencil.

[C9]

Looks like copper tubing is a good choice.
What I worry about with that is the flame required for the soldered joints when the tubing is near wood rafters etc.

Or . . . does a really big soldering iron do the job?

It's conceivable that I could solder the long run on the garage floor, carry it out backwards through the side door and slide it into the rafters.
The tubing couldn't be full length cuz it would need the room to 'flex' into the rafters.
I don't want to suspend the tubing from the rafters, but running it under them along the horizontal 2 x 4 (plate?) on top of the vertical studs would probably work better than stringing it up into the rafters.

Fwiw - the garage is not drywalled yet and that's going to be an advantage for me.

[Bib_Overalls]

Looks like copper tubing is a good choice.
What I worry about with that is the flame required for the soldered joints when the tubing is near wood rafters etc.

I solder near wood all the time.  Usually you can shield the framing with a plywood scrap.  Keep a wet rag handy.  If you are really paranoid you can by a flame resistant fabric shield at any plumbing supply store.  Point the flame of the torch on the fitting.  The hotter the torch the better.  The faster you heat the joint the less chance you have of charing the framing.  The longer it takes the hotter the surounding surfaces will get.  With a little figuring you can get the joints to fall between the rafters.  Or you can solder the tight joints on the ground or pulled away from the framing.  Once you get going it will all come to you.

Make sure your joints are super clean, inside and out and that you use an adequate amount of flux.

Use woden blocks to establish a little pitch and secure the lines with copper straps.  Leave a little room in all directions so the tubing can expand and contract.  

If you plan to finish the garage in the future decide now if you want the lines in the wall or not.  My recommendation is to run the lines above the ceiling and on the surface of the wall.  If so, the drops should fall between the studs (so you can nail to the studs when you apply the dry wall or whatever). Run a couple of 2x4 blocks across the bays that fall behind the drops.  Secure the drops to the blocks with copper straps.  Put a 3/4 inch plywood shim behind each drop to simulate the future wall covering.  I also suggest you put a threaded coupling in each drop just below the ceiling.  Use one male and one female copper pipe adaptor.  Much cheaper and much more compact than a union.

If you need help e-mail me or send me some gas money and I will come out.
 
I have 4 drops in my shop and all of them get regular use.  It is nice to have air at your work bench.  I have a couple of hoses that are 6' to 8' feet long that I use for bench work.  I cut them out of longer hoses and had a friend at the ayto parts store crimp on new fittings.  I don't care for the plastic coil "strechable" hoses.  They don't flow enough air sometimes and they are a bother to work with and difficult to store.  Retractable hose reals are nice but they can leak.  I store my hoses on a couple of tire rims cut in two and fitted with mounting tabs.  Easy to make and have a bit of a "hot rod" flavor.  

Still think you need to go out on the back side of that acre of yours and build ya a reall dream shop.

Steve

[1FATGMC]

I don't want to suspend the tubing from the rafters, but running it under them along the horizontal 2 x 4 (plate?) on top of the vertical studs would probably work better than stringing it up into the rafters.

Fwiw - the garage is not drywalled yet and that's going to be an advantage for me.

I probably don't understand what you are doing, but in my estimation I would like to have the drywall all done and then put up the pipe along the top of the perimeter walls (as you mentioned), so you can always get to it.

One part of my shop is 27X40 and the drywall is done there.  I also have another part of the shop that is 13X32 and it will be used as a paint room and a garage.  In that part I don't have the walls drywalled yet (the ceiling is insulated and finished).  My compressor is in that room and I will probably have to remove about 10 feet of air line when I get ready to drywall and then put it back.

You are going to insulate and finish the ceiling aren't you?  Personally I wouldn't want the air lines above the rafters where it would be a problem to get to them later if the need arose.

To solder them put a piece of tin behind where you are soldering while you are soldering.  It will act like a heat shield while soldering. Still be very careful.

c ya, Sum

[river1]

Looks like copper tubing is a good choice.
What I worry about with that is the flame required for the soldered joints when the tubing is near wood rafters etc.

Or . . . does a really big soldering iron do the job?

to protect the wood while soldering they sell a fireproff pad at the hardware store. works OK not perfect just OK, keep an eye on it while soldering. it has holes in the corner so you can temporarily nail it in place. plumbers use it because most of their joints are in hasrd to reach places. best way to solder lots of joints is to clean flux and assemble your complete run then solder all joints in order. the heat from one joint preheats the next (if it's close) so the solder flows quicker.

yes there is a soldering iron that will do the job but i have never seen one in person just in magazines.

you prolly know most of this but i'm just putting it out there.

later jim

[C9]

Still think you need to go out on the back side of that acre of yours and build ya a reall dream shop.

The "for-real" shop is in the thinking about it stage.
Part of it will depend on how much $$ is left over after buying the new house and the move and all the other nickel and dime stuff (that seems to require a fresh $20. every time I turn around).

The steel shop building people who manufacture the sorta quonset hut like shops that have straight sided walls are having a helluva sale right now.
Seems like a 30 x 40' shop is around 6-7 grand or so.
I'd really like to do that and there is a perfect place on the property to plunk it - and required cement slab - down.
Right in the middle of the - insert crocodile tears here - horse corral....

I think 1FatGMC made the comment about putting the copper pipe out in the open where you can get to it and that strikes me as a good idea.
Reason I like the lack of drywall right now is I can run the 240v & 120 v circuits, plugs et al then choose the level of insulation I desire and then do the drywall on the walls.
All of which would allow soldering the pipe to be done on the ground.
After the pipe install, ceiling drywall.

As it is, I'm happy to have the oversized three car garage.
It's a big step up from my double garage with 6' deep x 12' wide bay in the back.
The bay helps, but you still have to convert from garage to shop to do a project.
Not to mention you have to get out the grinder, buffer, sander, welder etc.

I'm really looking forward to having them available for use at any time.

Looking forward to those Arizona rock lawns as well.

If all goes well we should be in the new house by the end of this month.

[midnight sun]

Looks like copper tubing is a good choice.
What I worry about with that is the flame required for the soldered joints when the tubing is near wood rafters etc.

Or . . . does a really big soldering iron do the job?

It's conceivable that I could solder the long run on the garage floor, carry it out backwards through the side door and slide it into the rafters.
The tubing couldn't be full length cuz it would need the room to 'flex' into the rafters.
I don't want to suspend the tubing from the rafters, but running it under them along the horizontal 2 x 4 (plate?) on top of the vertical studs would probably work better than stringing it up into the rafters.

Fwiw - the garage is not drywalled yet and that's going to be an advantage for me.

Jay, a contractor told me about some "flexible"  line that he said some guys were using to run through the attics, etc., then hooking into copper/pvc once they got to where the drop was.  If I can get ahold of him again, Ill find out what it is if you are interested.

Later

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Mayb I should move to Kingman, $20.00 a whack  seems cheap.  Every time I turn around lately something is 100 -200 dollaring me to death. & I am not talking about my cars

I installed 3/4 PVC pipe in my shop for air lines.  I did NOT want the air lines ( plastic or metal )  inside  the walls because of future repairs , changes , etc.  

The pipe runs along the bottom of the wall.   I am going to change the pipes that come up the wall where the fittings are.  I have decided I need metal there to take the tugging and pulling of the air hose.

I don't have any one else in the shop working,  so this pipe setup works well for me.  I have a dual stage Speedaire compressor with shut off set at just a fuzz under 150 psi.

At my work benches I plumb the benches separate from the main pipe feed.  I plug an inline regulator in between the bench and main pipe feed to reduce the pressure when needed

The "for-real" shop is in the thinking about it stage.
Part of it will depend on how much $$ is left over after buying the new house and the move and all the other nickel and dime stuff (that seems to require a fresh $20. every time I turn around).

The steel shop building people who manufacture the sorta quonset hut like shops that have straight sided walls are having a helluva sale right now.
Seems like a 30 x 40' shop is around 6-7 grand or so.
I'd really like to do that and there is a perfect place on the property to plunk it - and required cement slab - down.
Right in the middle of the - insert crocodile tears here - horse corral....

I think 1FatGMC made the comment about putting the copper pipe out in the open where you can get to it and that strikes me as a good idea.
Reason I like the lack of drywall right now is I can run the 240v & 120 v circuits, plugs et al then choose the level of insulation I desire and then do the drywall on the walls.
All of which would allow soldering the pipe to be done on the ground.
After the pipe install, ceiling drywall.

As it is, I'm happy to have the oversized three car garage.
It's a big step up from my double garage with 6' deep x 12' wide bay in the back.
The bay helps, but you still have to convert from garage to shop to do a project.
Not to mention you have to get out the grinder, buffer, sander, welder etc.

I'm really looking forward to having them available for use at any time.

Looking forward to those Arizona rock lawns as well.

If all goes well we should be in the new house by the end of this month.

[zzebby]

Looks like copper tubing is a good choice.
What I worry about with that is the flame required for the soldered joints when the tubing is near wood rafters etc.

Or . . . does a really big soldering iron do the job?

It's conceivable that I could solder the long run on the garage floor, carry it out backwards through the side door and slide it into the rafters.
The tubing couldn't be full length cuz it would need the room to 'flex' into the rafters.
I don't want to suspend the tubing from the rafters, but running it under them along the horizontal 2 x 4 (plate?) on top of the vertical studs would probably work better than stringing it up into the rafters.

Fwiw - the garage is not drywalled yet and that's going to be an advantage for me.

Plumbers solder around wooden rafters and studs with a propane torch.  Good plumbers use a heat shield  to not blacked the wood.  Try a plumbers supply or just use a piece of sheetmetal.  Make sure you use lots of flux and let the solder suck into the joint. (capillary action)

[1FATGMC]

Reason I like the lack of drywall right now is I can run the 240v & 120 v circuits, plugs et al then choose the level of insulation I desire and then do the drywall on the walls.
All of which would allow soldering the pipe to be done on the ground.
After the pipe install, ceiling drywall.

Jay you are on the right track with getting the wiring in the walls and then put the MAX insulation you can in the walls, but no thicker than the studs.  If you have 2X6 studs use 6 inches and you won't ever be sorry.  This time of the year it is just as important to keep heat out and in the winter you won't need much heat at all to stay comforatable.  I would go with 10" in the ceiling.

On the drywall it is normal practice to put up the ceiling pieces first.  It is easier to measure and fit them as you then can have somewhat of a gap at the walls that will be cover by the wall pieces.  If you are doing this get a sheetrock jack for a day and one helper.  The jack also really helps with the walls pieces.  I've done this by myself, but a helper really makes it easier.  Working by myself I'll use 10 foot pieces and 12 foot with a helper.  If the garage is attached to the house check code.  You will proabably need 5/8's on the ceiling and the common wall with the house unless there is already a firebreak between the garage and house.

After the cieling pieces are up you can start on the wall pieces of sheetrock with the top ones first.  Slide them up tight agains the ceiling pieces and you will close any gap around the perimeter of the ceiling that you have.  With a helper and a jack you could easily get the ceiling and walls done in a day.  If I'm using a helper I'll just try and get all the full pieces in place and then let him go and do the partial pieces myself.  Also just get about 1/2 the screws and nails in and then go back and put the rest in.  Now if you have a crew come in then just sit back and watch them.  You use to be able to get sheetrock hung pretty cheap, but a guy stopped when I was building the new house/shop and gave me a quote on sheetrocking the shop.   I was shocked at how high the quote was (I hung it myself).

Once you have all the sheetrock up, taped and painted put up your air lines.  

If you already knew all of this sorry for the long explaination.

c ya, Sum

[Jimc]

An old guy in our neighborhood used copper tubing coiled in a 5 gallon bucket in line to "Dry" air s it passed through the coils.
Worked pretty well.
I used pvc in my shop and have had no problems.
I used 1/2 inch. When I replace it, if I do, I will use larger. I had not thought storage would be a problem, but sometimes a little more air would come in handy.

[hotroddder]

Here is a pic of the drops I made......