New bodies

enjenjo · May 12, 2007, 10:20:38 AM

Have you seen the reproduction Camaro, and Mustang bodies? Do you think they will have an effect on the prices of original bodies? Where do you think this will lead?

I know where there is a 69 ZL! big block Camaro body that is beyond repair, but has a good VIN, I may have to pick it up.

OldSub · May 12, 2007, 10:49:04 AM

I've wondered what impact they will have.

For a casual restorer or anyone else who cares more about looking right than being original, those bodies could put a cap on how much you'd be willing to spend on body work.

And they will both provide supply which would work against prices and at the same time may inspire more demand. But one of those bodies will never have the same 'soul' as a car that rolled off the factory line in 1969 and for some will never have the value.

In a market where clone cars based on original tin are now demanding the big prices isn't it likely that before long reproduction cars will too?

I doubt I will ever buy one, but I have a rust dependency. On the other hand that Camaro might represent an opportunity to make some nice money...

av8 · May 12, 2007, 01:03:18 PM

Think of that new body as the ultimate patch-panel kit.

Is the original block usable, Frank? New aluminum 427 blocks are available, with a blank number panel. Original or not, it would be a sweet ride.

Here's a link to the ZL1 registry . . . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/76000/an/0/page/0

40 · May 12, 2007, 03:22:38 PM

A newly established local hotrod shop is building two of the repop 69 Camaro Convertibles.They got one of the very first bodies and it was terrible....required a BUNCH of work!The second one seems to be much better,I believe the second one was made overseas.I saw a finished one at a show last year.....It looked OK.Not sure what affect they'll have on the market.

alchevy · May 12, 2007, 11:17:05 PM

Saw several of them in Hot Rod mag. There's even a repo '47-'53 Chevy Pickup cab.

Uncle Bob · May 13, 2007, 10:08:34 AM

Just to add to the list, Experimetal also has a '57 Chev convertible body on the market. Of course they did a '32 Chev roadster about 20 years ago that sold somewhere between 6 and 15 units (depending on who's story you want to believe). The factory rep at SEMA last year told me they scrapped a bunch of unsold bodies a few years ago. The '57 they had on display had very friendly quarter panels (they waved a lot), along with "rough" spots in other areas. The Camaro and Mustang bodies also needed some fairly extensive body work, though better than the '57. The pony cars are stamped in Taiwan.

I think to answer Frank's original question there might be a clue in the hot rod world. Brookville has sold somewhere around 600 Deuce roadster bodies, probably somewhat fewer '28-9 and '30-1 roadster bodies, and still have about a year long waiting list on the '32, 7-8 months on the A's. Supposedly they have at least the first 100 3 window coupes presold (pent up demand from the Hot Rods and Horsepower debacle?). And HR&HP has done well selling their roadster * cabrio, though I haven't heard any numbers.

My question would be how wide is the market for these cars? If you look at the people buying the Brookville and HR&HP bodies they're mostly guys born from around 1940 until maybe the mid '60's. The muscle car guys tend to be in the 1950-1970 bracjet, some overlap with a portion being both rodders and muscle guys. Do the Mustang and Camaro lovers have a wider demographic? Perhaps. I could see it for the 2+2 given the wild success of the "Eleanor" cars and the wider appeal of the Shelby cars. But the Camaro? That's what it's going to take. Enough guys who reach peek earning years, kids gone, low mortgage, and so on, wanting these badly enough to fulfill some dream they have, and not enough availability of "original" cars to meet that need. Oh, and rumor has it that Dynacor will be bringin a '67 Mustang convert body to market also.

The big difference is that the Deuce, at least in hot rod circles, is unique unto itself as an icon. There's just nothing else to compare to it. Domestic roadster production was just over 12,500. Between glass and steel repops that number has very likely been exceeded by now. I doubt that repop Camaro and Mustangs will ever get anywhere near matching original production numbers (for one month of production). Just can't be that much demand to compare to the much higher original production runs.

I can see a guy who really wants a 2+2, tired of looking at craapy repaired rust buckets, or appropriately high priced proper "restorations", getting frustrated and buying a repop fastback shell, and a low priced coupe for a donor, and assembling the car of his dreams.

So, given that, yeah Frank, before the bloom falls off the rose you better get that ZL1 plate with rusty display frame. Oh...........and don't forget you've got Carl's Edsel to finish.

Dave · May 13, 2007, 10:47:06 AM

I would have loved to have onw of those 32 chevy bodies.. I thought they were sweeeeeeeeeet.
Its gonna be interesting to follow these new bodies.. Before ya know everyone will have an old stang or a camaro..
Dave
oh ya i saw one of the new stang cobras last week. Sharp.. Then I saw the price :?:

oiler · May 13, 2007, 10:54:00 AM

Quote from: "Uncle Bob"Just to add to the list, Experimetal also has a '57 Chev convertible body on the market. Of course they did a '32 Chev roadster about 20 years ago that sold somewhere between 6 and 15 units (depending on who's story you want to believe). The factory rep at SEMA last year told me they scrapped a bunch of unsold bodies a few years ago. The '57 they had on display had very friendly quarter panels (they waved a lot), along with "rough" spots in other areas. The Camaro and Mustang bodies also needed some fairly extensive body work, though better than the '57. The pony cars are stamped in Taiwan.

I think to answer Frank's original question there might be a clue in the hot rod world. Brookville has sold somewhere around 600 Deuce roadster bodies, probably somewhat fewer '28-9 and '30-1 roadster bodies, and still have about a year long waiting list on the '32, 7-8 months on the A's. Supposedly they have at least the first 100 3 window coupes presold (pent up demand from the Hot Rods and Horsepower debacle?). And HR&HP has done well selling their roadster ##### cabrio, though I haven't heard any numbers.

My question would be how wide is the market for these cars? If you look at the people buying the Brookville and HR&HP bodies they're mostly guys born from around 1940 until maybe the mid '60's. The muscle car guys tend to be in the 1950-1970 bracjet, some overlap with a portion being both rodders and muscle guys. Do the Mustang and Camaro lovers have a wider demographic? Perhaps. I could see it for the 2+2 given the wild success of the "Eleanor" cars and the wider appeal of the Shelby cars. But the Camaro? That's what it's going to take. Enough guys who reach peek earning years, kids gone, low mortgage, and so on, wanting these badly enough to fulfill some dream they have, and not enough availability of "original" cars to meet that need. Oh, and rumor has it that Dynacor will be bringin a '67 Mustang convert body to market also.

The big difference is that the Deuce, at least in hot rod circles, is unique unto itself as an icon. There's just nothing else to compare to it. Domestic roadster production was just over 12,500. Between glass and steel repops that number has very likely been exceeded by now. I doubt that repop Camaro and Mustangs will ever get anywhere near matching original production numbers (for one month of production). Just can't be that much demand to compare to the much higher original production runs.

I can see a guy who really wants a 2+2, tired of looking at craapy repaired rust buckets, or appropriately high priced proper "restorations", getting frustrated and buying a repop fastback shell, and a low priced coupe for a donor, and assembling the car of his dreams.

So, given that, yeah Frank, before the bloom falls off the rose you better get that ZL1 plate with rusty display frame. Oh...........and don't forget you've got Carl's Edsel to finish.

Just curious as to what the deal was with HR&HP exit from the coupe market?
Just noticed on there website that the coupe is shown but not listed anywhere
Jeff

Crosley.In.AZ · May 13, 2007, 11:28:16 AM

the shows on TV where new panels are used..... IF you listen carefully it is mentioned on how the panels "need tweaking" to fit.

There is a shop in Chandler that claims to be a dealer for new Camaro bodys. I've not seen one in person.

OldSub · May 13, 2007, 11:52:06 AM

Quote from: "Uncle Bob"My question would be how wide is the market for these cars? If you look at the people buying the Brookville and HR&HP bodies they're mostly guys born from around 1940 until maybe the mid '60's. The muscle car guys tend to be in the 1950-1970 bracjet, some overlap with a portion being both rodders and muscle guys. Do the Mustang and Camaro lovers have a wider demographic?

Today I think they do. How many of those new '69' Mustangs do you see every day? Ten years from now it may be different.

When you are thinking about cars as an investment knowing who wants that car and when they are going to want it is certainly a key.

The last several years I've been telling people about the '51 MG TC my uncle bought in the 50's and now can't seem to sell for $17,000. In 1976 I watched him turn down $12,000 for the same car.

My conclusion is that the people who value that car had money in the 70's and 80's but now at 77, my uncle is younger than most of them and they are all selling not buying anyway. Its been for sale for three years now.

If you are spending money on cars as an investment, know your market!

I plan to leave my treasures (a bunch of rusty old junk) to my kids so the money doesn't matter.

Uncle Bob · May 13, 2007, 06:09:35 PM

Quote from: "oiler"
Just curious as to what the deal was with HR&HP exit from the coupe market?
Just noticed on there website that the coupe is shown but not listed anywhere
Jeff

While you have to give them credit for stepping up to try (word was they had about $1mil in tooling cost, which is what B'ville claims too) the bodies were just horrible when delivered. Imagine paying $20k+ for a body, and then your body guy tells you it'll take another $15k +/- to make it good enough to paint. Not very many happy people with that scenario. Then there were partner rifts, and investor fall out, the inability to come to an assembly deal with ASC like they did with the roadster (since changed) and it was just one big downward spiral. The Brookeville product is so supperior, even though you'll have to pay or do to chop and reinforce, that nobody in their right mind would buy one now.

ProEnfo · May 16, 2007, 08:37:51 PM

[quote="Uncle Bob] the inability to come to an assembly deal with ASC like they did with the roadster (since changed) and it was just one big downward spiral. [/quote]

The coupe was poorly designed from an assembly standpoint and ASC refused to have their name associated with it due to lack of quality, the roadster was an ASC design that HR & HP purchased the rights. I believe ASC produced 300 bodies plus 10 'pre-production' units that were built.

As far as the Experimetal Chevy roadsters, when they 'cleared house' a friend of mine bought their last complete body at half-price .... somehow I doubt that they scrapped any..JMO

CC