Ethanol

[48bill]

Today's Wall Street Journal had an article about how ethanol is ruining engines in boats as it is a solvent and boats have a vented versus closed gas system.  Can this also be a problem with many of our cars that have a vented cap for example, my 48 Chev and 48 F-1?

Also they mention that it also breaks down fiberglass gas tanks in boats.

Could this be a problem with a "poly tank" from TANKS?

Street Scene magazine had a blurb a couple of months ago about replacing flexible hose with a ? new type that won' dissolve with the ethanol.

Are the Tree Huggers killing us again?

Bill

[enjenjo]

Today's Wall Street Journal had an article about how ethanol is ruining engines in boats as it is a solvent and boats have a vented versus closed gas system.  Can this also be a problem with many of our cars that have a vented cap for example, my 48 Chev and 48 F-1?

Yes, ethanol is a solvent, just as methanol, and even gasoline are solvents. Many states have required 10 percent ethanol for some time, and there have been no ill effects.

Also they mention that it also breaks down fiberglass gas tanks in boats.

Older fiberglass tanks used a resin that was not alcohol resistant. It could cause a problem in those. Newer tanks use a resin that is alcohol resistant, there should be no problem there. At this time, the only new tanks approved for underground storage of fuel are made of fiberglass.

Could this be a problem with a "poly tank" from TANKS?

Polyethylene is resistant to alcohol. The gallon cans you find in stores, and the 55 gallon drums used for shipping are made of Polyethylene.

Street Scene magazine had a blurb a couple of months ago about replacing flexible hose with a ? new type that won't dissolve with the ethanol.

That fuel line has been on the market for some time, and is usually the only type sold in most stores. You might find the old type hose at Kmart in a blister pack.

The old Standard Oil premium gas with "Ice Guard" had 3 percent alcohol in it. The Shell premium with Fuel injection cleaner has alcohol in it. Dri Gas is alcohol. Fuel injector cleaner is alcohol.

Outside of the source, ethanol is made from corn primarily, while methanol is made from natural gas, and the fact that ethanol has a bit less BTUs per lb, there is not much difference between the two.[/quote]

[donsrods]

A while back I posted a thread on this subject. I can't remember if it was on this forum or one other.  The reason I posted it was because I work in the Service Dept of a Marina, and we started getting memos from Mercruiser, Volvo, Yamaha, Suzuki, and others regarding the fact that a certain chemical (it has 4 letters in it that I can't remember) is being replaced by Government mandate, and will be replaced with Ethanol.  The gist of the memos was all the same, it was telling us we would start seeing an increase in fuel related problems and how to deal with them.

When I did that thread I was semi-crucified by other members saying they had used ethanol for years and it was not a problem.  It was as if I was trying to tell everybody the sky was falling.  My concern is that if all these manufacturers felt it important to create these studies and memos, there might be something to it.

Since that time we have seen a DRAMATIC increase in fuel related problems at our Marina. Just last week we had 3 boats in and drained 15 gallons of water out of one tank, 8 out of another, and 3 out of the last one. There was no obvious place where this water could have gotten in, the cap o rings were in good shape, the tank senders were not leaking, etc. So we are leaning toward water coming in when they bought gas, or condensation forming in the tank.

One problem with ethanol is that it sucks up moisture like a sponge, and if you store your boat (or car) with less than a full tank, there is the potential for the ethanol to pull moisture from the air. Here in Florida we have humidity all the time, so maybe we see if more often than other States.

Just this year alone we have done many times more carb jobs and have sent many more fuel injectors off to be cleaned than ever before, so something is going on.  We all know gas today is not nearly the quality it was even 5 years ago, and my fear is that this latest addition of more ethanol into gas will start to present itself especially in boats and cars, like ours, that may not be used on a daily basis.  Perhaps the reason some people haven't had a problem is because they use their gas up more quickly?

Not trying to be an alarmist, just putting out a little info that we have seen.


Don

[Arnold]

There are also different additives..as well as different compunds both IN the gas now..and stuff NOT in there that was several years ago.of course the fact that there is more and more ethanol.Add to this different blends from different companies AND for different areas/climates.

  I patched a leaking gas tank only a few years ago.Something I have done enough times over the last 36 years in a variety of vehicles.This wasn't even a big deal hard to patch job.

  I was STUNNED when it leaked.I have NEVER ever had one leak that I patched.Never. SOooo..I sortta guessed it was a bad batch of resin..and I re-did it.Nope.Then I asked the guy who mixes it..sells it from the mnfr.to me.Additives in the gas he said. I then ended up having to replace this tank with a used one(yes I could of had it "re-lined"..the cost of some relined tanks is exactly the same as a brand new one here).

  This  leaking tank sat here for quite a while.During that time..every now and again.. I very carefully and meticulouslly attempted to patch it..fix it..see just what would work.I cleaned this tank inside and out..You name it I sure have enough stuff around labelled that it is resistant to gas etc.,I even tried a couple of small amounts if different gasoline.Whatever is in the gas here in Toronto..there was no way that I could patch that tank with any sort of stuff that I could get. I am sure there must be similar blends of gas elsewhere too.I did not try liquid epoxy.Maybe that works? The knead type and of course the JB weld type was completely useless.

  From what I am hearing,reading..and from the sheer volume of different types of plastic/rubber etc used in fuel systems over the years..

   We have some tough times ahead of us in regards to older fuel systems and newer fuels.

[Uncle Bob]

......a certain chemical (it has 4 letters in it that I can't remember) is being replaced by Government mandate, .......

Don

That would be MTBE Pops.

[58 Yeoman]

They found that mbte was contaminating the ground water.  We've been using ethanol gas for years here, without any problems.  I recoated my Chevy tank back in the early 90's with the seal kit from Eastwood, and haven't had any probs there, either.