Fuel injection fuel line help needed, please

[48builder]

If I ever hope to get my engine fired up, I have to run the fuel lines. Trouble is, everybody I talk to has a different answer.

I'm using the stock Z28 fuel pump and sending unit. It has steel lines that come out from the tank and take a 90 degree bend and then have that hard plastic hose with quick-connect fittings on the end.

Trouble is, I don't want the bend. I want to cut the bend off, and then use flexible hose of some type to go over to my frame rails, tne steel line (3/8 brake line) up the the front, and then flexible hose to the engine. I thought I would just use the GM plastic hose that came on the Z, and fit a barbed fitting in the end with a fitting that would allow me to connect to the brake line.

I was planning on using a Fram HPG1 fuel filter in the line coming from the tank.

Can anybody tell me what I need to do this? I can't seem to find any info, and a call to Summit racing just confused me more. Is there a way to use the hard plastic stock line that was on the engine? I'd need a fitting with a barb on one and, and either AN6 or something that I can connect to the brake line?

I guess I just need some help understanding what all the terms mean. I guess there are different types of flares, then there are NPT ends, AN fittings. I just want something simple that isn't going to cost me a fortune.

Can anybody explain how all these fittings work?

[enjenjo]

I don't know of any barbed fittings for the plastic hose. What you can use is Weatherhead Air line compression fittings. You can use a compression union on each end, plastic in one side, steel in the other. They are not real Sexy, but they won't leak. You will have to remove the tube support insert in the union on the steel side, but the compression sleeve works fine.

I normally use a GM EFI filter, you can buy steel tube with the correct ends to fit the filter at NAPA, or used an A/C -6 compression to flare adapter with O ring to seal normal steel tube ends to O ring seal fittings.

[48builder]

I don't know of any barbed fittings for the plastic hose. What you can use is Weatherhead Air line compression fittings. You can use a compression union on each end, plastic in one side, steel in the other. They are not real Sexy, but they won't leak. You will have to remove the tube support insert in the union on the steel side, but the compression sleeve works fine.

I normally use a GM EFI filter, you can buy steel tube with the correct ends to fit the filter at NAPA, or used an A/C -6 compression to flare adapter with O ring to seal normal steel tube ends to O ring seal fittings.

Weatherhead fittings? Do you have a part number for the filter? Or a year and model?

[enjenjo]

The Weatherhead pn is 1462X6. Most stores can cross that number.

The filter is Wix 33481 fits a 87 Camaro TPI

[48builder]

The Weatherhead pn is 1462X6. Most stores can cross that number.

The filter is Wix 33481 fits a 87 Camaro TPI

Thanks. I went to NAPA, and thought I was all set. I got a couple of those repair unions for nylon hose. Then I notice that the stock hoses I have say "not repairable" on them. Is that true, or is that a scare tactic? Why do they make repair kits for GM lines if they aren't repairable?

If I have to I can get more compression-type fittings. I was trying to use the factory quick-connect fittings where I could.

[enjenjo]

They say non repairable for liability reasons. GM can't control the quality of repairs.

[48builder]

They say non repairable for liability reasons. GM can't control the quality of repairs.

I'm going to continue with my plan, using a combination of origianl GM hoses, AN fittings, and new high-pressure fuel hose, and a GM filter. I want to be able to get anything I need to fix this car at my local NAPA or GM dealer.

[56ngirl]

I guess I just need some help understanding what all the terms mean. I guess there are different types of flares, then there are NPT ends, AN fittings. I just want something simple that isn't going to cost me a fortune.

Can anybody explain how all these fittings work?

I can't help with the fuel line routing (I must acknowledge that I am greatly under-experienced when it comes to the other people on this website) but I can help with the terminology part of it.  Most of this is from first term college notes(and they are a little on the 'morning after' side) so please correct me if I am wrong....
NPT stands for National Pipe Thread....I *think* the angle of the thread (the actual peaks and valleys of the thread, not the turns/inch) is closer to a 90 degree angle (less chance of stripping, ie. thicker material) and the thread will get wider in diameter the farther back from start it goes...if that makes any sense.  That's why there is a fair amount of thread showing even after a connection is tight.

AN is originally aircraft term (AN is short for Air Force and Navy which means that the hardware was made to their established standards) but I think that it has been 'borrowed' in automotive because of the similarity  to *AN fittings*  that I encounter in every fuel and low pressure hydraulic line on the helicopter.  It usually is an anodized blue coupling nut with (in proper installs) a sleeve underneath.

The tricky thing about the term AN fittings, and what I look for when I am checking out the engine bays of most show cars, is that 95% of all the blue fitting I see are not actual AN fittings!!  because aircraft tubing flares are made at a 35-37 degree flare, where as automotive are 45 degrees.  Genuine AN fittings will have AN or an LA stamped down/on some flats.  

most tool dealers will give you a wierd look when you ask for a 37 degree flaring tool....so I know that if I see real AN fitting on a vehicle (an I have seen one or two) then I figure that the guy must have way too much money and time....or he's an aircraft engineer too, and he just 'borrowed them' from work.

Does this help? Probably not.  But it makes me feel smart  

[48builder]

The tricky thing about the term AN fittings, and what I look for when I am checking out the engine bays of most show cars, is that 95% of all the blue fitting I see are not actual AN fittings!!  because aircraft tubing flares are made at a 35-37 degree flare, where as automotive are 45 degrees.  Genuine AN fittings will have AN or an LA stamped down/on some flats.  



when I called Summit to check on a solution, the tech guy told me I needed to buy a 37 degree flaring tool to get the right flare. I would assume that most of the automotive applications out there use the Aeroquip or Jeg's fittings they sell, so I don't understand why most of the ones you see are using 45? Are the fittings wrong are is the flare wrong?

[Bruce Dorsi]

when I called Summit to check on a solution, the tech guy told me I needed to buy a 37 degree flaring tool to get the right flare.

******************************

Walt, you're welcome to borrow my 37 degree flaring tool, if you need one.  

I trust you'll return it. --- If not, I know where you live!
....Of course, I'll never find your house again, without GPS!  

Then again, we could meet at Cora D's, and you could return it then!

Let me know if you need it, and I'll UPS it to you.

~~~~Bruce

[56ngirl]

when I called Summit to check on a solution, the tech guy told me I needed to buy a 37 degree flaring tool to get the right flare. I would assume that most of the automotive applications out there use the Aeroquip or Jeg's fittings they sell, so I don't understand why most of the ones you see are using 45? Are the fittings wrong are is the flare wrong?

Most of the ones I see are just the same colour blue with no stampings on any of the flats....so, since every single freakin' aircraft fitting I see has them, I guess I just assume they are not aircraft but a 45 degree flare coupling that is made to look like them.  Who makes them, where you buy them, and what they are actually called; I have no idea.

The term Aeroquip (again, in aviation....which is the mechanics that I am exposed to on a daily basis) applies to the company that makes the hose itself.  I was under the impression that any replacement hose we use (say if it's ordered from Bell Helcopters) is that Bell buys the hose from Aeroquip then installs the 37 'sleeve-type' end fitting (because Eurocopter uses the exact same hose, only with metric thread fittings).....  My Aircraft Standards Handbook only tells me that the part number for the sleeve starts with MS (Military Standard) but tells me to refer to the manufacturer for the appropriate part number.

I would think that if all coolant fittings that come with your favorite engines are 45 degree, then there should be automotive versions for those peolpe that don't want to have some 37 flares and some 45 flares.

As I said....who makes them, where to buy them and what THEIR part number is, is beyond me.

But I'd love to hear if someone else does?!!!

[48builder]

Haven't been back since we went that night. We'll shoot for next year. If Geena is still working at a new Greek place, maybe we'll go there instead.