Just wasting time because it's hot outside

[GPster]

The middle Jeep, '80 CJ7 258 L6, started running real bad just trying to move it from one parking space to another. I poped the hood and it sounded like a couple of cylinders weren't doing anything. Popped the air cleaner and it had an accumilation of oil but the valve cover breather hose has been jury- rigged and blow-by drained that way. Changed the air cleaner and re-directed the hose and it still ran bad. Pulled plug wires one at a time and narrowed it down to cylinder 4 and 5 so I pulled those plugs, They were covered with oil/carbon and looked like they had been that way for a while and finally got overcome. Worried about this problem being on two cylinders next to each other so I tried to do a compression test on them. It took me three different style compression testers (borrowed) til I finally got 80# on number 4 and 30# on number 5. I wouldn't trust those numbers so I'll probably go out and buy a compression tester I think will do the job.  These heads seem to take long reach plugs that don't use very much thread purchase. There never seems to be any problems with the cooling system so I thougt if the head gasket were bad it would be between the cylinders but when I checked the compression the plugs were out of both cylinders so showing any pressure and two different nunbers has me doubting myself even more.  The other plugs in the engine show lack of care. I pulled them to see if #4 and #5 had different plugs in them do to a long term oil problem. Like I said, it's too hot to go out and shake my head at it but someone with a cooler mind might point me at some things to check. GPster

[Arnold]

The middle Jeep, '80 CJ7 258 L6, started running real bad just trying to move it from one parking space to another. I poped the hood and it sounded like a couple of cylinders weren't doing anything. Popped the air cleaner and it had an accumilation of oil but the valve cover breather hose has been jury- rigged and blow-by drained that way. Changed the air cleaner and re-directed the hose and it still ran bad. Pulled plug wires one at a time and narrowed it down to cylinder 4 and 5 so I pulled those plugs, They were covered with oil/carbon and looked like they had been that way for a while and finally got overcome. Worried about this problem being on two cylinders next to each other so I tried to do a compression test on them. It took me three different style compression testers (borrowed) til I finally got 80# on number 4 and 30# on number 5. I wouldn't trust those numbers so I'll probably go out and buy a compression tester I think will do the job.  These heads seem to take long reach plugs that don't use very much thread purchase. There never seems to be any problems with the cooling system so I thougt if the head gasket were bad it would be between the cylinders but when I checked the compression the plugs were out of both cylinders so showing any pressure and two different nunbers has me doubting myself even more.  The other plugs in the engine show lack of care. I pulled them to see if #4 and #5 had different plugs in them do to a long term oil problem. Like I said, it's too hot to go out and shake my head at it but someone with a cooler mind might point me at some things to check. GPster

  It is often pretty hard to get an accurate compression test on engines
that are older..(greater clearance)..that have an accumulation of oil,carbon in them.Imho..I would get this warm..change the oil,put something in the gas and the oil to clean it out,change the plugs,give it a good run..blow it out..and then take another look at the compression.
This is cheap and easy to do as opposed to yanking  a head off.
 Excess oil and carbon on plugs is not a sign of a bad head gasket(unless it has been run forever with a bad head gasket)
 Make sure it is getting up to operating temperature.
 There are just too many variables..stuck rings..(carbon),rusty cylinder walls from lack of use,carbon holding the valves off their seats. I have actually seen engines that were blowing oil due to a low compression cylinder..that had oil so filthy that the lifters were just about completely plugged up..and lol.almost acting like solid lifters with NO clearance..holding the valves open. I backed off the valves until it rattled(that actually gave that cylinder some compression..and they left with no miss..just rattling valves),changed the oil,put some stuff in the gas,oil,changed the plugs and sent the customer on their way. They had actually come to me (referred)
to get a new engine haha. I pulled the dipstick and it looked and felt like roofing tar with sand in it haha. Nice car,low mileage..ran forever after it was looked after.
  The worst part about tearing into an old dirty engine is that once the thing is opened up..it becomes even harder to tell where the problem was.
 rofl. I had an old Chevette brought to me once that I actually had to cover the exhaust ports..fill the intake,cylinder,intake,exhaust and combustion chambers with carbon cleaner! to clean that thing up.There was so much carbon in this thing the compression was sky high. I did not even think it would work..was not even worth pulling the head off. Hey..it worked.

[UGLY OLDS]

Joe ...It could be something as simple as cleaning the carbon out as Arnold suggested & replacing the valve seals ... They also can be replaced without pulling the head . I would rather check everything out before I pulled the head ...  


Bob .....

[GPster]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. When I stumble on something like this I have to walk away from it and think and ideas help me get started on it again. I bought this thing thinking I could make it return to a usuable vehicle. It had been "Mudded" with 35" tires on it, 8* homemade shackles and a 3" body lift kit and I am basically using stock (not restored) as a guideline. The oil and filter were changed at the beginning just to see if the motor had ever been submerged. The same for the front and rear differentials and the transfer case. The only "Smog" stuff left on it is the PCV valve and companying piping. The brakes, wiring and suspension have been gone through but because it ran and moved I held my expectations low. Just kind of "Hit and Miss" until it did. I am dissapointed that the simplicity that I thought would be there, isn't but me trying to make it right has taken it past the throw away play vehicle for me. So maybe enough "Low Dollar " ideas will keep me from getting deeper in trouble. Thanks GPster

[taxpyer]

It is disapointing when these things happen,   Check out the old wires and cap thing too. If you want to look at jeeps for sale try www.ewillys.com in their classified section never know what you might find there. Lots of jeeps.

[GPster]

Dumb question of the day (it's early) I usually deal at Advance Auto parts and I was just checking on line for spark plucs. This thing has Autolite plugs in it and that's probably the cheapest brand to use for replacement. It had resister plugs in it, is that the replacement type I should use? It's goy Autolite electronic ignition  but there is not any other electronics in the vehicle. Any advantage either way? The plug wires look respectable and when the plugs were cleaned everything fired so is there any advantage either way? Also what's a good carbon cleaner to put in the gas the continue with these ideas? GPster

[wayne petty]

Dumb question of the day (it's early) The plug wires look respectable and when the plugs were cleaned everything fired so is there any advantage either way? GPster

OHM test the wires... with the digital volt meter set at 200K ohms...    the wire should display a number smaller than the wire is long in inches...   a 18 inch wire should read around 12 on the meter..  or less...   1,000 ohms per inch MAX...

next... do you have a spark tester.. to test the coil max output..    you can just place the cap end of the coil wire 3/4" from the block and have somebody crank the engine.. with electronic ignition.. you should get a nice snappy blue spark.. if you only get a dull orange spark that won't reach a 1/4" .,. the coil is bad..

above.. you said you cleaned your spark plugs...   with what.. one of the air powered sand blasters for cleaning spark plugs???  did you use spray to clean the grit from the deep recesses of the spark plug.   the sand used has gotten into the cylinder before... wedged into a piston side and grooved the cylinder walls...  ruining the engine...


if you have pulled the valve cover..  checked that the oil drain back holes did not plug up and cause the valve cover to flood with push rod oil.. submerging the valve guides and flooding the seals which i think on that model are an umbrella seal.. this has caused massive amounts of carbon build up and fouling of the spark plugs and cylinders.

enough to hold the valves off their seats and drop the compression to close to zero.. i have pulled engines apart that had several ports that were completely blocked with carbon deposits from leaking valve seals..

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/vct/B45323/image/4/

[wayne petty]

i spotted this

thought many of you might get a kick out of it..

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/stunts/Jeep_Dismantle_and_Rebuild_In_Under_4_Minutes


sorry no refunds on the 4 minutes..

i would think the next trick they would do is bring a wall section with a door way... drive up to it on one side...   stop.. take it apart..   carry all the parts through the door...  put it back together on the other side.. then continue driving away...

creative TV producers could use it as a prank...  a boss gets called from his office.. and in 5 minutes returns to find a complete jeep occupying his office...  

perhaps... even  reassemble it in an elevator...

[Arnold]

Dumb question of the day (it's early) I usually deal at Advance Auto parts and I was just checking on line for spark plucs. This thing has Autolite plugs in it and that's probably the cheapest brand to use for replacement. It had resister plugs in it, is that the replacement type I should use? It's goy Autolite electronic ignition  but there is not any other electronics in the vehicle. Any advantage either way? The plug wires look respectable and when the plugs were cleaned everything fired so is there any advantage either way? Also what's a good carbon cleaner to put in the gas the continue with these ideas? GPster

 Me personally..depending on how severe the carbon,muck is depends on my approach. There are some very,very aggressive ways to deal with this. Too aggressive can and has destroyed engines..although really severly carboned engines ditto. Umm..I would put some Seafoam in the oil,max strength is the gas,down the carb., as per directions. Change the oi.put some GM EOS in the oil, and plugs..run it. If there are improvements almost immediately..you are probably on the right track. If no improvements..I would do it again and run it for at least a few weeks.
If you don't get any improvements then..then as Wayne said..off with the valve cover.. and we go from there

  Me pesonally..with you having no or very low compression in 2 cylinders..I would not be doing anything more agressive than the above just yet. Testing this way is very cheap.
 
  Dribbling..spraying water down the intake works well on engines that
are not that badly carboned up.Severe carbon cases sometimes means the engine must come apart. Not that severe..one of the carb,cleaners,carbon cleaner,oil cleaners. I prefer Seafoam as it is a petroleum product..can be left on forever(except in the oil) and is fairly gentle. If you are aggressive with Seafoam..as in really,really dousing..aerosol too..in the cylinders..leaving it in there for days and days..then doing it again..AND the engine is badly carboned up..you are going to regret it..as the plugs will foul pretty much instantly..or if it does start..it will load up so bad..and pretty much bake the muck and now you put some  more new plugs in it..
  Good luck

[GPster]

Well, ran it today after doing the water bit at the carb. Did it befor I change plugs and it's run better than I've known it to. Blow-by is terrible and it might be what made it look like it was burning oil with it going to the air cleaner. Might give it the Seafoam treatmentto see if the rings are stuck. Might help the oil pressure too. When engine is warm at 60 MPH pressure is only 25#. Maybe there's a reason it was being "Mudded"? GPster

[1800guy]

I was always opposed to "Band-Aid in a Can" products until I learned about Sea-Foam.  My wife and I rotate 3 fuel injected cars as daily drivers - two have over 250K and 1 has 165K.  They get a can in the fuel tank at each oil change and none have ever had any sort of fuel related problems at all.  My previous car (a rust victim) had over 528K when parked, and never any issues either.

[GPster]

Well, I snuck up to it today. I tried Sea Foam in it. Cleaned #4 plug again as just sitting and running it for short times had let it fowl (?) again. That and when I cleaned it last time I heated it up with my torch too hot and melted off some of the electrode. Any way it was running on about 5 1/2 cylinders so I let it suck the 5 oz. up through the PCV hose and then shut it off and let it set for 5 minutes. I was doing this proceedure in the school parking lot across the street because of the smoke and stink warnings on the lable. Started it back up with the old plugs still in it and it went through the smokey spell and then ran out of gas. Couldn't leave to get gas because I was acting as the responcible adult in charge for two grand kids so I spent some time getting the plugs changed. When my releif came home from work. I got some gas, started it up and took a short drive. Ran well enough that when I parked it in my driveway I put the For Sale sign back in the window. Maybe tomorrow some one will want to trade for a Jeep in the local bargain shopper. I've got the amp meter out and all of that wiring and installed a volt meter. Also replaced the switched ground Jeep starter solenoid with a Ford type starter solenoid and more typical wiring at the neutral safety switch. Still got plenty of suggestions to try or maybe I'll see why I get no power to the fuel gauge or instrument lights. GPster