New Addition To The Garage

[40]

I Aquired this old tank a couple of months ago and have been trying to bring it back to life.It is a 60K original mile car that I purchased from the second owner who had it in storage for nearly 20 years.So far,I have replaced the entire A/C system,water/fuel and power steering pumps,distributor,wires/plugs/points/cap etc. as well as all of the belts/hoses.It fires right up and runs like new at times.....periodically,out of the blue,a couple of lifters will begin to clatter loud enough to put a dodge diesel to shame.I can start it one time and it will be whisper quiet and the next it might clatter like hell.....I can be driving down the road perfectly quiet and all of a sudden it will begin to clatter.....I can then continue to drive a bit and it might quiet back down or,with no rhyme or reason,it may continue to clatter.The noise comes and goes completely at random.Today I hooked up a manual oil pressure gauge to check the pressure....it has an idiot light.....it ran nearly 40psi at idle....the manual says it should be 33 to 35 psi so I believe the pump is plenty healthy.I had the pan off the old gal and there was no residue and the bottom of the motor looks super.Just has me baffled as to why the problem is intermittent.....sounds like it may be a couple of bad lifters but it makes no sense to me why it isn't noisy all the time.I thought perhaps it might be a chunk of crap in the lifter port but I've been running some additive in the oil to clean it up with no results.Any ideas??? Thanks!

[wayne petty]

get an oil pump kit....
this is the kit for the 66 7.0 motor
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/mel/K-58E/image/4/


change the oil pump relief spring..  and piston..


is that a 65 or a 66???

you will want to soak the water pump bolts every time you can...

don't forget the water pump bolts are 1/4-20 and they twist off as they are corroded in..  the timing chain on these beasts are also nylon toothed cam sprockets and they do fail.....  at the worst possible moment..
there are single outlet pumps and dual outliet pumps like this one..
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/c27/L58-119/image/4/

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/c27/L58-118/image/4/

the timing set..
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/dtc/73172/image/4/


there are also some studs that hold the water pump and the timing cover on..

[40]

It is a 67. I already twisted all of the water pump bolts off trying to remove the leaking pump......Had to remove the timing cover etc to drill out the broken bolts.....I've already lived that nightmare!! The timing chain/gear looked good.....nobody had one in stock ...so I put it back together.....seems to run fine other than the random lifter noise. I will probably rebuild the oil pump just because but it seems healthy and the motor carries 38psi or so at idle with the motor at operating temp.Are you thinking the pump is failing part-time?

[wayne petty]

i am thinking that you have a piece of trash in the bypass valve..

a leaking timing cover gasket..  where the suction passages is from the pick up tube to the oil pump....   and you are pumping air into the oil galleys.. pressure would still be there.. but the air will work its way through the lifters and allow them to collapse...  making all kinds of racket..


do you see the openings in the timing cover gasket.. on the right leg in this picture..

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/fpr/TCS13328-1/image/4/

one is suction from the pickup .. the other is pressure..  if the gasket is kinked.. the timing cover held away by a tiny fragment of gasket stuck below the alignment pin...

i would like you to really pull the distributer..      set up either your speed handle or a 1/2" variable speed power drill.. spin the pump  up... see what it feels like... do you feel times when the restriction is less.. the torque to turn the pump drops while the speed increases..

i am afraid.. that you might want to order a timing chain set..  and another timing gasket set..

there are also a few pump rebuilders..  that will flow test and pressure test your pump and sometimes right in the cover..

i will have to look around for the oil routing diagram for the 429 caddy i guess thats what you have..

429 pump and timing cover..
http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0900c152/80/1c/83/71/medium/0900c152801c8371.gif

[chimp koose]

I would try to flush the oil with one of those engine oil flush products you add to the oil and run for 10 minutes then drain. I would guess that from sitting so long that maybe there is come corrosion in the oil galleys to the lifters as those would be the first ones to drain back and sit empty ,and exposed ,after a long time of sitting unused.If there is any crud or rust sitting up there it may be dislodging periodically, causing some lifters to bleed down. This would be my first thought , after the oil pump relief valve sticking,if the lifters rattling are at the ones at the far end of the oil feed from the pump.

[40]

Thanks for the thoughts/replies.......Wayne,it is interesting that you think it is oil pump related.....When I got a good pressure reading,I had all but ruled out the pump.....However,I really didn't have any knowledge of how this pump worked.....all of my experience has been with pumps located in the pan. I had almost convinced myself that it was a lifter problem and was thinking new camshaft/lifters.It is certainly worth rebuilding the pump first.I also think I'll take your advice and install a new timing set.Any other thoughts/suggestions? It will be a few days before I have a chance to look at it further.Thanks again guys!

[wayne petty]

pull the distributer...   test the pump as described above...  


sometimes i rattle on.. and stuff gets glossed over..


its been many years since i worked on a LOT of these... i do recall having to pull the timing covers again after another mechanic let the gasket slip... another tore the gasket on the dowel pin...   one caused an external leak.. the other caused air to be sucked into the oil pump..

how did you attach the gasket to the front of the block...

how did you clean it..   i have a 5 way painters tool... that i keep razor sharp with a diamond file..  by dragging the blade along the file length.. not across it.. this keeps the edge perfectly flat and sharp.. a single pass on the file with the flat side flat on the file to take the burr off..  i can scrape aluminum heads without gouging the surface...

i almost always use 2 different adhesives to glue timing covers on..   usually after the cover and block are prepped.. i use 3m black super weather strip adhesive to glue the gasket to the face of the timing cover... mushed around in it..   separated for a few seconds.. and then dropped in.. bolts dropped through the holes backwards..   fingers to flatten the gasket out.. and keep it centered...  5 minutes rest.. then pull the bolts.. smear a thin coating of ultra grey silicone on the gasket face.. then install it..  if you wait more than 5 minutes..  the black may be too stiff to pinch out when you torque the cover..   tiny amounts around the 2 oil passages...

you can if you are creative... test the oil pump in the timing cover with a chunk of thick plastic or other material..  make an adaptor for the timing cover area where the passages are.   rig a container of oil to feed the pump.. and a return line with a shut off valve beyond a oil pressure gauge... so you can spin the pump with a drill on the work bench.. and check the pop off pressure...    this is all creative.. i seem to recall that the gears on the 429 ride in the aluminum housing...


how the pump works.. . it pulls up oil from the pan .. pushes it out the other side of the gears...   when the pressure/resistance comes up.. the plunger will be pushed back against the spring tension .. this will dump oil either back into the pan.. or into the suction side of the oil pump gears...


i have pulled the springs out and  found them in 7 pieces from rust and fatigue..   i have found the pistons trying to slide in corrosion..   so you rev the motor.. the piston slides back and hangs up.. the pressure drops for a few seconds until it can free itself..   the oil pressure relief piston has to be free to slide in the bore...  except for the spring holding it in place..


please find a tube of stay lube moly graphite assembly lube to assemble the pump with..   you are also going to need to check clearances.. side and end..  and between the gears incase the housing has worn..

when the timing cover in in place.. oil in the motor.. you have two choices.. use a priming tool to spin the oil pump with the oil filter off until the oil pump can lift the oil from the pan..  or .. disable the ignition and crank the motor  with the filter off till you get oil from the front cover and then put the filter on and crank until you get the light out..

i have gone as far in the past as using my hand vacuum pump to suction oil up and through the pump to avoid a dry start...

would you like to talk about this on the phone..  PM me with a good time to call.. and your phone number.. i have unlimited US calling..


you might want to copy my text over into word and print it out .. using highlighters to separate the wheat from the chaff...


sioux city.. is that where they have the multiple F16's mounted nose up on display at the ball park next to the interstate???

[Mikej]

Daryle. You could try letting a quart of oil out and then put in a quart dextron trans fluid in. Run for 100 miles and change oil. Should clean things up. Can also put a pint in the gas and it will up the valves. Mike

[enjenjo]

Risilone is good too.

[droopies]

Before you pull it back apart and start throwing cubic dollars and parts on it....why don't you rig up a mechanical gauge so you can see it while you drive.  If you see the oil pressure drop when you get the noise...oil pump or oil delivery system.  If the oil pressure doesn't drop...probably bad lifters.  You may have a couple of lifters that have trash or something in them that causes them to leak down randomly.

When you had the oil pan off, did you check the pickup?  If the factory nylon timing set is disintegrating the screen will have lots of debris on it.  If it was clean, someone has already changed it more than likely.

[Glen]

Awesome car....its nice it see one in thats not flat black...lowered...with salad shootin wheels.

[40]

Sorry for not replying sooner......My Mother-in law died last week and we sold our home......that has kept me pretty busy! We have to be out of our home by November 4th.......That gives me about 5 weeks to get our new home built! What I have decided to do.....when time permits.....is to rebuild the oil pump and replace the timing set while I have it apart.Got all the parts/gaskets ordered and will try and find a rainy day in the next couple of weeks to make time to do the work.I will let you know when I have it finished. In the meantime,I'll be pounding nails 12 hours a day,7 days a week! Hope we don't see snow till Christmas!

I also don't like the way these old highway cruzers look with the huge wheels/ribbon tires......however,I did just install a set of Coker WW's.....Now it looks like a gangster mobile!