How Do You Guys...

[Crafty]

..Get your cars registered?

I only asked because here in the UK the government agency that deals with the registration of vehicles has released a "consultation document" on possible changes they would like to make.

Basically it sucks. you can read about it here http://www.dvla.gov.uk/public/consult/veh_inspec/vi_perm_imp.htm make sure you grab a coffee beforehand, you'll need it.

I'll give you a run down of the current stuff:

Most cars have to pay "road tax", this is for the priviledge of using a public highway. Cost ? $300 USD a year. ( cars with engines less than 1400cc are cheaper ).
Cars registered before 1973 are tax exempt ( free ).
All cars over 3 years old are tested for roadworthiness (sp?) every year, this is called an MOT and costs around $50 USD. You have to have the MOT certificate ( & insurance certificate ) to pay for the tax. If you don't have all three you cannot use ( or even park ) the car on a public road. If the vehicle is not taxed you hgave to declare it "off road", if this is not done they will fine you about $150.

Okay, now we get down to the nitty gritty..
Lets say you build a '32 coupe... there are a few ways to get it registered:

Q plate - bit of a stigma here as Q plate basically means "we dont know what the hell this is but its got an MOT so you can drive it". Doesnt look right.

Brand New Registration - Car has to pass a test called SVA ( Single Vehicle Approval ). Really designed for kit cars ( e.g. lotus 7 replicas), tests all sorts of odd things ( like how high the tops of the seats are in a roadster ), emissions, noise pollution.. Also you have to prove all components apart from one are brand new, this means keeping every receipt.. The SVA determines that you are not allowed any sharp edges, so things like front end bolts have to have a cap over them. The reason for this you may ask ? that sharp edge on the nut might injure someone should you hit them with the car. I dont know of any rod/custom thats gone through SVA.

Age Related Plate - This means you'd get issued an age related plate ( which looks "right" as old registrations are 3 letters and 3 numbers ). This is done on a points system, you have to score 8.. the possible scores are:
5 - Original Chassis
2 - Original Axles (both)
1 - Original Engine
2 - Original Suspension ( fornt & back )
2 - Original Transmission
2 - Original Steering Assembly
( Note this also applies to imported vehicles )

Donor Car - If enough parts are used from a donor car ( basically all running gear, suspension, axles etc ) you can use the registration of the donor car.

The naughty "we dont do that" option is you buy a registration document for another car ( legal ) and then use it as the identity of your car ( illegal ). Something nice and vague like "1932 two axle rigid body" is ideal.

basically they are going to make it even harder.. e.g. you want to register that old car you just rebuilt ? you would have to prove that all components are 25yrs old or over..

Just wondering what obstacles you guys face ? I guess it varies from state to state.. Also what do you guys think of this ?

there is an active discussion on your NSRA board, which can be accessed here http://www.nsra.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4890

Hope the link does not offend, will remove if it does..

[Bib_Overalls]

Every state has it's own rules.

What works in one state could get you arrested in another.

And within states the various DMV offices often put different interpritations on the rules and regulations.

Experienced rodders in the various areas seem to know what works and how to do it.  So the way you find out is by talking to the folks who have done it.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Crafty,

what Bib_ says basically covers it. One state in the USA accepts something ,the next does not.

My brother is an enforcement officer with Motor Vehicle Dept ( MVD) in Arizona.

He had a guy come in with some new cars that were imported from Europe.  Some small car from M Benz. Some how these car  were titled in Washington state ( USA). My brother inspected them and knew the paper work was wrong. My brother was going to impound the car  ( he has the authority).  My brother even called M. Benz's USA  corp office to check numbers & the numbers were wrong

With "All said and done"  the federal Customs agency contacted  my brother and asked him to let the cars go since they were following the cars and the people with the cars.

Arizona is fairly strict on vehicle titles / paper work.

10 years ago I bought a car trailer that was from Ohio........at that time  the state of Ohio did NOT title many types of light weight vehicles.  I had  a MSO for the trailer (MSO = Manufactures statement of Origin).  The wench at the AZ MVD was a real wench!  

I quoted the Ohio law to her and still spent most of the day getting an Arizona title for the trailer .  I had EVERY piece of paper  work that was ever generated for the trailer in front of her. Bill of sale , MSO , notorized bill of sale to me , Ohio license plate.  SHe never admitted that I was correct

[enjenjo]

Tony, many trailers in Ohio still don't require a title. I have three, all home built. I know of a trucking company that builds their own trailers, and they don't have titles either.

I've never had trouble selling one out of state.

Now cars and trucks are a different story. You best have a title when you start building one, or you may lose everything when you take it for inspection. If you have a title, and a valid VIN number, there is no other inspection, other than emissions in certain countys, and pre 1966 don't even have to do that.

[Pope Downunder]

..Get your cars registered?

Snip..

Thanks for posting this; I have a strong interest in the various systems, as it is so fundamental to the hobby we enjoy.

You have to fight; and you can make significant ground.

Here in NSW, Australia, I've been mucking about with old cars for at least 32 years.  In that time I recall at least three major 'battles' with the government registration authority, the RTA.  I was personally involved in the middle one, which was around 1980-1982; working on the NSW Street Rod Committee.  These battles were protracted and took considerable effort I can tell you, and I can attest to the fact that it was a lot more tenuous than most people ever realise.  Whilst most guys whinge, I can say that the RTA, would have eliminated us as a minor annoyance years ago if they could have got away with it.

These 'battles' gradually formed what is a reasonable system here.  It is still tough, with quite a few safety requirements, and quite a few 'requirements' that probably don't have great benefits, but do establish limits, and requirements.  But; we can register our cars, in the main.  I hasten to add, that as a result, the average Australian rod is probably fairly well built.

There are three basic systems of registration:
* Conditional Registration.  Based on the Permit Scheme pioneered 30 years ago, and successfully operated since. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/registeringavehicle/conditionalregistration/index.html A system of 'limited' use, based on sanctioned events and servicing needs.  A permit is required for each outing.  A system of rules negotiated over many years, is fairly liberal.  Very cheap, administered by NSW SRC, and very good, especially for radical cars, or for people with several rods.
* Modified Production (MPV).  Classification based on chassis used, not the body. For rods that are based on an original chassis that is modified within defined limits.  Caters for the bulk of 'traditionally' built cars, and can accomodate most rods built.  Some compliance with the intent of someh Australian Design Rules (ADRs) is required.  These rules 'step-up' with engine capacity wrt the original capactity.  For example, at 145% of the original engine's capacity, you must incorporate a collapsable sterring column and mounts.  Pollution ADRs are tied to the year of manufacture of the engine
See more here;
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_dl1.html and here
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi06.pdf
* Individually Constructed Vehicle.
For heavily modified vehicles, and for reproductions, kit-cars etc.  Very heavy ADR compliance requirements; you would need to be very determined to bother; so few do.

All classes require a certificate from an Automotive Consulting Engineer; an 'engineering signatory'.

None of this is perfect; but it is workable, and has been for a long time.

Of late, the 'National Guidelines for the Construction and Modification of Street Rods in Australia' have been adopted by the federal government, and most states have adopted them, to some extent or other.  NSW is reluctant.  They can be found here;
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vsb/Street_Rod_Manual.aspx
This is a major step forward all the same, as the term 'Street Rod' has now an official definition in Australia, and the construction guideleines have been developed largely by rodders, based on practice.

Back, to my first point; none of this was achieved by Government initiative, it has been driven by a dedicated core of hot rodders who just won't go away.  

Sorry for the long post, but I assumed from your post that you wanted access to actual regulations, and how they came to be.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Frank............ the trailer is a Featherlite aluminum trailer built in KY , owned by a freind of mine in Perrysburg(?) Ohio.

He warned me about AZ since he has a home here.

[enjenjo]

Frank............ the trailer is a Featherlite aluminum trailer built in KY , owned by a freind of mine in Perrysburg(?) Ohio.

He warned me about AZ since he has a home here.

Sorry Tony, Perrysburg is too high class for you to have friends there  

They sell Featherlite trailers right down the street from me, it their distribution center for this area.

[Crafty]

Thanks for the info guys.
Wow registering trailers.. I don't know about articulated lorries but anything you can tow with a car doesn't need to be registered at all here.

Very interesting to see that Oz take all this seriously. Our main problem this that 98% of people don't know we exist.. least of all the civil servants. The posting on our NSRA board has hade the desired effect, one of the committee spoke to the registration agency , once he told them he was from the NSRA they said it explained alot as they had seen a large influx of "feedback" in the last week or so.

We aren't against inspections, in fact most welcome it - We'd rather know our cars are safe and built properly.
The really scary thing under the proposed regulations would be that anything vehicle they believe to be modified could be hauled off the road and inspected, should it fail that inspection effectively its taken off the road. Remember these inspectors will have little or no knowledge of our cars and/or the technology involved, they are usually looking for cut and shuts that are either unsafe or have been put back on the road after a write off.

Alot of this seems to revolve around 2 things: Consumer Protection and Money.
They are trying to ensure if they title a car as a '32 roadster its a genuine '32 roadster, pretty much as Henry built it, so if any person looking at the vehicle can be assured that its genuine.
The problem is that we aren't necessarily interested in genuine. No-one thought of that.
Alot of the questions they ask are "do you think you should pay a fee or xyz, if not who should carry out xyz" smells of bean counters at play to me.
I think we are looking for a "Special" class for our vehicles. Having "street rod" as an officially recognised term would be great.

[Pope Downunder]

Thanks for the info guys.
Snip

Very interesting to see that Oz take all this seriously. Our main problem this that 98% of people don't know we exist.. least of all the civil servants. snip
The really scary thing under the proposed regulations would be that anything vehicle they believe to be modified could be hauled off the road and inspected, should it fail that inspection effectively its taken off the road. Snip
I think we are looking for a "Special" class for our vehicles. Having "street rod" as an officially recognised term would be great.

You need to find out what they are really trying to achieve, and either satisfy them on that with facts and figures, suggested systems etc., or refute their position with facts.

Generally they (the civil servants) are very busy, and the hot rods are really caught up in some bigger agenda, and the numbers are way too small for them to do all the work necessary.  I suggest you get very organised, if not already, and offer to do the work for them.  More than likely they will adopt your proposals, rather than reinvent the wheel, and have a protracted battle.

The 'getting put off the road' aspect can be effectively dealt with, as we do also.  modified cars have their registration endorsed accordingly, and the owner must cary a copy of the engineers report.  This is referenced on the RTA computer, so when the highway patrol officer codes your car in the correct documentation of modifications comes up.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Sorry Tony, Perrysburg is too high class for you to have friends there  

The muscle cars that wonder in here.... W-30's , ZL-1 Camaro, Hemi cars, 427 Fairlanes,  69 Vette in the shop now.  Same guy... LOL

[Crafty]

Just a quick update, the DVLA ( our registration agency ) have been in contact with the NSRA to let use know they are considering the implementation of a "street rod" classification, similar to the Oz system.

We've a long way to go, but its good news..
that to all that answered, especially pope for the links to the Oz handbooks.

[Pope Downunder]

Just a quick update, the DVLA ( our registration agency ) have been in contact with the NSRA to let use know they are considering the implementation of a "street rod" classification, similar to the Oz system.

We've a long way to go, but its good news..
that to all that answered, especially pope for the links to the Oz handbooks.

I'm pleased it was useful.