MII upper A-arm mount kit

[Charlie Chops 1940]

Does anyone know of a kit to mount MII upper a-arms on studs like say a '55 Chevy, allowing the use of shims for alignment instead of the vertical bolts in slots stock system?

Thanks,

Charlie

[UGLY OLDS]

Not a kit but .....I remember seeing a modification that used a piece of angle iron or .375 plate that was trimmed to fit & had small gussets welded in the ends..It was welded just inside the slotted holes on the Mustang spring cups .......
Grade 8 bolts were then mounted horizontal & used with shims after the Mustang cross shafts were turned 90 degrees.....  

Just a thought ...


Bob......

[Learpilot]

Not a kit but .....I remember seeing a modification that used a piece of angle iron or .375 plate that was trimmed to fit & had small gussets welded in the ends..It was welded just inside the slotted holes on the Mustang spring cups .......
Grade 8 bolts were then mounted horizontal & used with shims after the Mustang cross shafts were turned 90 degrees.....  

Just a thought ...


Bob......

You would have to use tube A-arms, because the brace of the stock a-arms would hit the bolts. I like the idea, because I have had the a-arm slip on a hard bump that mis-aligned the front end. I believe if I had studs this would never happen. Check with Fatman Fab www.fatmanfab.com ,because on there chasses they have a stud mount for upper a-frame on there Stage III w/coilovers. I don't know if that is the only way you can get the stud MII front ends.
Rick

[Charlie Chops 1940]

Thanks guys. I don't have the a-arms in front of me yet. I'll look at that clearance issue.

Charlie

[Crosley.In.AZ]

Fatman  told me  they could build that shim adjustment design onto most of  their kits.  I talked to them at Columbus OH  a few years back

[papastoyss]

Does anyone know of a kit to mount MII upper a-arms on studs like say a '55 Chevy, allowing the use of shims for alignment instead of the vertical bolts in slots stock system?

Thanks,

Charlie

This was shown in Street Rodder mag many years ago. The builder used a stock M11  crossmember & trimmed it to fit the frame.I can't remember his name , but it seems like he was a retired well known  racer. I believe the article showed how he welded the chassis to a large thick steel plate on the shop floor &  took measurements & reference points to ensure the wheels wound up in the right place. Maybe someone who has a milder case of CRS than me will know how to find the article.

[GPster]

Frank Oddo did an article in Street Rodder and I think it was when he was doing the frame for his '40 Ford pick-up (he had a lot of '40 stuff and a lot of his teck articles were on his own vehicles). I'd have to place the article in the late '70s or early '80s because I was still a subscriber. The change was mostly done to make it easier to align the suspension, do away with the "carriage bolts" (?) and to have alignment hold after it was done. He had already dealt with prolems with the Mustang II under his coupe and didn't want to deal with it on this next vehicle. This was long enough ago that I don't think anyone offered tubular "A" arms yet. To get some old time wisdom you might contact Progressive Automotive. They started selling Mustang II change overs in the mid '70s when Mustang II parts were mostly found under Pintos . GPster

[Charlie Chops 1940]

Thanks for the tip Joe. I vaguely recall that so I'll get into the archive one evening.

Charlie

[Okiedokie]

I have [somewhere] some brackets to accomplish what you want. They were made to do this on Cobra kit cars. I don't remember the name, but will try to find it and let you know. I do remember the Oddo article, which is why I bought the pieces, and could probably find it with some time. Joe

[enjenjo]

I have done this, making my own brackets. There are two problems with this. The first is clearing the A frame as mentioned before. The second is by necessity it raises the inner end of the control arm from 1/2" to 1". This changes the camber curve. If you allow for this by lowering the spring pocket a like amount, which needs a shorter spring, or using a taller spindle, or an extended ball joint, it fixes this problem.

[40cpe]

I have done this, making my own brackets. There are two problems with this. The first is clearing the A frame as mentioned before. The second is by necessity it raises the inner end of the control arm from 1/2" to 1". This changes the camber curve. If you allow for this by lowering the spring pocket a like amount, which needs a shorter spring, or using a taller spindle, or an extended ball joint, it fixes this problem.

What are the consequences of the change in camber curve? Tire wear. Ill handling?

[jaybee]

You want the upper to slope slightly down toward the center of the car so that the top of the wheel is pulled inward as it rises.  That increases negative camber under cornering to improve road holding.

If you move the inner upward you could actually get into a condition where the top of the wheel is pushed outward under compression.  That would be bad, especially with radial tires, wide tires, and low profile tires.

Incidentally, MII is such an excellent set up for rods because the construction and dimensions are a great fit for early cars, but it isn't ideal from a performance standpoint.  Among other things the roll center can migrate pretty dramatically under roll and suspension loads, which makes it a tad squirrelly when driven hard.  Art Morrison Enterprises has a weld in kit http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/42.pdf that uses MII or aftermarket spindles but relocates all the pickup points.  It costs a little more but they have to pay for the extra engineering.  If you're building a cruiser who cares, but if you're building a car to really push through the twisties it'd be worth a look.  As you can see this one also dispenses with the slotted slotted top hat adjustment in favor or an eccentric set up.

[enjenjo]

I saw a neat way to do this today, he lowered the hat to put the A frame shaft in the same position, then used a coil over shock for a spring.

[Charlie Chops 1940]

I'm still looking at this on the Volvo project. I have the lower cross member in place and  mocking up where the spring/shock tower can go. I hate to make the available spring area any shorter as ride starts to go to heck. I should be able to simulate camber change and plot the changes between upper arm pivot at design height or enough higher to provide clearances.

Charlie

I saw a neat way to do this today, he lowered the hat to put the A frame shaft in the same position, then used a coil over shock for a spring.