Torque converter head scratcher.

[phat46]

I have a '71 429 ford engine in my '46 truck. Since I got it running it has stalled everytime I drop it in gear. the trans was rebuilt by the best local guy I could find: the older ford tech that builds trans as a side business. I was in a hurry to get it on the road after I got the trans back and bought a cheap reman'd converter. The only way i can keep it running when I drop it in gear is to turn the idle up so far that it will shift into second without have to touch the accelerator. I thought that maybe the cheap converter was the cause and asked the question here and other places and found agreement. I just ordered a new converter from Summit that is supposed to fit the 429/460- C 6 combo. I know there is two different size pilots on these converters and i couldn't remember whcih i needed for my setup. From what i researched the FE engines with the C 6 use the short 1.85" dia. pilot and the 429/460 uses the longer 1.375 dia. pilot. I ordered the longer 1.375" dia. converter because it specifically says on the summit web site that it will not fit the FE engine, so I assumed it was for the 429/460.  The one Summit lists with the 1.85" dia. pilot says it is for the FE engine......I know it fits my 429, because I originally had a 1.375 dia. converter that would not allow the trans to go far enough ahead to bolt up to the block before it bottomed out in the crank. i bought the cheapy 1.85 dia. converter and it all slipped together. I am going to ship back the one with the 1.375 pilot and order the one with the 1.85 pilot, but I found it strange that the listings didn't match what i was looking at in front of me.

[wayne petty]

a while back i posted the link to a complete torque converter catalog.. with pictures and measurements...    guess you missed it...
edit.. the link still works..

http://www.kingomatic.com/documents/08_TC_Cat_lo.pdf


i really wonder if you have vacuum leaks...  like a blown out power brake booster...

a leaking intake manifold gasket..

burned out gasket under the carb spacer...

secondary throttle blades hanging open slightly...

some massive vacuum leak from the carb...  some carbs have hot idle compensators..  

where is your base timing set at?   with the vacuum advance disconnected???   less than 4 degrees or up about 10btdc... at 600 to 700 rpms...

which carb do you have...   holley, carter, motorcraft??? is the intake manifold one that came with a egr  and could that be leaking...


all of the above will cause weird enough idle problems that when you drop it in gear it will stall..

the idle blades have to be closed enough that they are not exposing the idle transition ports...  

the round passages are idle ports... the slots are idle transition ports...

the engine runs on the idle ports when the throttle blades are closed...   off idle.. the engine runs on the idle transition ports. until there is enough air flow across the booster venturi start drawing fuel up and over...

it really sounds like the idle mixture is too lean.. so the engine cannot make enough power to idle in gear...

[phat46]

a while back i posted the link to a complete torque converter catalog.. with pictures and measurements...    guess you missed it...
edit.. the link still works..

http://www.kingomatic.com/documents/08_TC_Cat_lo.pdf


i really wonder if you have vacuum leaks...  like a blown out power brake booster...

a leaking intake manifold gasket..

burned out gasket under the carb spacer...

secondary throttle blades hanging open slightly...

some massive vacuum leak from the carb...  some carbs have hot idle compensators..  

where is your base timing set at?   with the vacuum advance disconnected???   less than 4 degrees or up about 10btdc... at 600 to 700 rpms...

which carb do you have...   holley, carter, motorcraft??? is the intake manifold one that came with a egr  and could that be leaking...


all of the above will cause weird enough idle problems that when you drop it in gear it will stall..

the idle blades have to be closed enough that they are not exposing the idle transition ports...  

the round passages are idle ports... the slots are idle transition ports...

the engine runs on the idle ports when the throttle blades are closed...   off idle.. the engine runs on the idle transition ports. until there is enough air flow across the booster venturi start drawing fuel up and over...

it really sounds like the idle mixture is too lean.. so the engine cannot make enough power to idle in gear...

No power brakes....
 
It has an edelbrock carb and intake. No egr. The engine and trans was taken out of a great running donor vehicle and the engine hasn't been touched as far as changing anything. the trans was rebuilt because it wouldn't shift out of first gear.

I have tried enrichening the idle circuit with no effect on the stalling. My thoughts on changing the torque converter was that it was a p.o.s. that was basically "locking" up and stalling the motor. The motor stops instantly when i put it in gear, no saving it with the throttle.

I need a better converter in there whether that's the stalling problem or not.  I just found it odd that the ones on the Summit site seems backwards in the application to what i was looking at in front of me....
edit:  It did idle in gear with the original torque converter, with the engine setting at a lower idle than it is now. i was advised by the trans guy to replace the converter due to all the trash and burned bands he found in the trans.

[wayne petty]

just curious....  do you have any thing to completely block off the carb mount..   so you can blow a little compressed air into the intake through a vacuum port...?   check for leaks in the intake to heads??   did you use a one piece valley pan or the 3 piece gasket set??

do you have a tachometer???   what's the stall speed of the converter???

if you can see in the images or in the catalog link  ... there are low stall converters and high stall converters listed...   the higher stall converters have more angle to the little lines in the outside...


just curious... what happens.. when you put your hand over the choke and have somebody put it in gear???   still die??

[Crosley.In.AZ]

hi,

my book shows the 1.848 pilot for the 410, 427, 428, 429, 360 & 390 engines   1966 - 1976

A 460 - 462  engine is listed for the 1.848 pilot in a Lincoln application

It would appear to me the 1.848 is for the 429 engine

The 1.375 pilot is listed for ; 351,400, 460 , 300 - inline 6 , 302 V8  truck.

Camshaft , timing , and carb settings will affect engine idle in gear with a stock OEM type converter.

Nothing add about a site listing a fitment incorrectly.  Humans are involved.

The Map Source  software in my GPS took me 3 blocks east of my son's house when he lived in Tennessee...  Yahoo maps and MapQuest show the same location ... wrong is wrong  when humans screw it up