Pulleys & Brackets help

[Crafty]

I'm after a little help with small block pulleys and brackets.
The scenario i have is that I am running alternator and power steering (using the pump with built in reservoir). I am running a short water pump.
The engine is going to run TPI, the heads only have 1 bolt hole in the passenger side.

Basically I'm looking for brackets to hold the power steering pump and alternator. I can't use any low mount stuff because of my crossmember (see pic below).

This is an old pic but it shows how the engine is mounted
http://www.crafty.f2s.com/DSCF0107.JPG

I have found some brackets from bills hot rod brackets, according to them I have "late style heads" as shown on this page (the second pic down) http://daytonasp.com/ven/bills%20hot%20rod/files/heads.shtml

This is the power steering mount,

Information is on this page: http://daytonasp.com/ven/bills%20hot%20rod/files/300.shtml

I think that will work, provided that the pulley isn't too big (as it'd hit my crossmember), so question no. 1 is whats the diameter of a power steering pump pulley ? I'm guessing they are all roughly the same size as this would change the "gearing" and how fast the pump would spin.

Ok, so alternator, as mentioned the passenger head only has one bolt hole, this greatly restricts the brackets I can use, but I have found this one:


the information for the bracket says it uses a single bolt on the passenger side head only as it is for "late heads" ( see http://daytonasp.com/ven/bills%20hot%20rod/files/1100.shtml )

I'd prefer not to have the alternator stuck out so far, but am struggling to find another bracket that fits the configuration I have.

Does this look ok so far ? the next question is where does everything align to ? My thinking was to have a double groove crank pulley, one would run the power steering pump, the other go round a single groove water pump pulley and the alternator.. but every small block I see that has power steering and an alternator also has air con and therefore uses a 3 groove crank pulley.. do I need to use a 3 groove pulley and just leave one groove unused ?:confused:

Any ideas on other brackets or the pulley questions are welcome!
Wow this ended up being a long post, but hopefully I gave enough information for someone to help out!

Thanks

[348tripower]

Crafty,
 I think that you are going to find that you are stuck with the alternator on one groove, the air conditionong on another and the power steering on the last one. Nature of the beast. Now, I have modified Alan Grove brackets to suit my needs. I am sure you could do it with Bills also. I have also modified GM brackets, but they are more work. Maybe someone else has a better idea.
Don

[enjenjo]

I have used Bill's brackets in the past. They fit, and are plenty strong enough. It is a one man shop, call him and he can help you with questions. FWIW, his parts are ready to chrome out of the box, if you plan on paint, spring for the powder coated brackets.

These brackets should fit your needs  http://www.hotrodsusa.com/store/bills_600.html

[sirstude]

I had a set of Bills on the Studebaker and they were really nice.

Doug

[Crafty]

thanks for the replies,

tripower : I don't have air conditioning, if I did I could use some sort of serpentine setup.

enjenjo & doug : thanks for the reccomendations on bills brackets, good to kow what im looking at isnt junk. I did look at the 600 series, but hedoesn't list an alternator bracket for passenger side, only air conditioning.

I had a thought this morning, welder series do some brackets right ? I'll take a look at their site at lunch.

[Crafty]

Welder Series do a bracket which will suit, take a look http://www.welderseries.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_34&products_id=214

I prefer this one by the description as it will mount over the valve cover. I have emailed them to find out if it clear a TPI inlet and how it will line up on the pulleys, also asked if they do a steering pump one as there are none listed on their site.

[enjenjo]

I don't know if that will clear a TPI.

[Crafty]

just resurrecting this one.. I did some measuring and even the bills power steering pump bracket wont allow the pump & pulley to clear, it needs to go even higher, this is because the steering rack "box" (where the pipes connect and the shaft connects) is right there, so I looked around and found something I could use, its a serpentine kit from march, small alternator and a custom steering pump with a built in resevoir, mounted nice and high (actually its in line with the water pump), I found on online price of $2400    its nice kit but a bit spendy..

so.. Im thinking that if I put the steering pump on the passenger side of the engine and ran lines across the back of the crossmember I could then get a bracket for the alternator that uses the holes in the head. It might look a bit weird but I don't see any problems with doing this ?
I think I will have to make the steering pump bracket, because on that bills bracket you cannot flip the top arm over, but I figure I can make something similar.
The other alternative is that it appears some modern stuff have an electric pump that still pumps steering fluid, so I could use one of those - the only issue is I don't know what pressure a mustang 2 rack needs, does anyone know ? no point going electric if it doesn't produce enough pressure.

[GPster]

OK. For some reason I'm not reading very well (driving 150 miles under skies of various shades of gray). I don't understand if you're using a short water pump or not but here's a few parts sounces you might look at. The short water pump was use in trucks and Vettes past '67. Trucks til '71(?) and Vettes till '73(?). On of those animals had the power steering pump on the passenger side. Now this was the era of the newer head with the mounting bosses and I'm sure if it was the Vette the power steering pump would have had to be mounted higher than the motor mounts. The vette also used a nice casting for the alternator that fit on the front of the drivers side head and it didn't look like it stuck too far for me. One day while going through the junk engine pile at the junkyard I found a water pump pulley on a small block chevy that I think was on a long water pump. This thing had four grooves, three regular sized and a smaller groove nearest the engine. I elongated the fan mounting holes to fit the short water pump pattern and all of the grooves missed hitting a short water pump housing and one of the grooves lined up with a single groove crank pulley. Now all of this playing around was to put a short water pump on a 4.5L V6 and it worked well enough to test run the engine with cooling and a short belt between the crank and water pump pulley and it didn't throw the belt. Maybe you could use one of these four groove pulleys. drive it from the crank and just take the power for your accessories from the exrta groves at the water pump? The '87 S15 GMC truck that I'm using on my Jeepster project has a nice little power steering pump on it's 2.5L four. It's remote fill and has the cogged pulley for serpentine belt drive. It's mount is non-adjustable because there is a spring loaded idler/tensioner on/in the system. Now my eyes are really tired. GPster

[GPster]

OK. For some reason I'm not reading very well (driving 150 miles under skies of various shades of gray). I don't understand if you're using a short water pump or not but here's a few parts sounces you might look at. The short water pump was use in trucks and Vettes past '67. Trucks til '71(?) and Vettes till '73(?). On of those animals had the power steering pump on the passenger side. Now this was the era of the newer head with the mounting bosses and I'm sure if it was the Vette the power steering pump would have had to be mounted higher than the motor mounts. The vette also used a nice casting for the alternator that fit on the front of the drivers side head and it didn't look like it stuck too far for me. One day while going through the junk engine pile at the junkyard I found a water pump pulley on a small block chevy that I think was on a long water pump. This thing had four grooves, three regular sized and a smaller groove nearest the engine. I elongated the fan mounting holes to fit the short water pump pattern and all of the grooves missed hitting a short water pump housing and one of the grooves lined up with a single groove crank pulley. Now all of this playing around was to put a short water pump on a 4.5L V6 and it worked well enough to test run the engine with cooling and a short belt between the crank and water pump pulley and it didn't throw the belt. Maybe you could use one of these four groove pulleys. drive it from the crank and just take the power for your accessories from the exrta groves at the water pump? The '87 S15 GMC truck that I'm using on my Jeepster project has a nice little power steering pump on it's 2.5L four. It's remote fill and has the cogged pulley for serpentine belt drive. It's mount is non-adjustable because there is a spring loaded idler/tensioner on/in the system. Now my eyes are really tired. GPster

[Crafty]

GPster,

thanks, I never knew Gm had made passenger side steering pump mounts. I am using a short pump as you guessed.

I will go do some reading and see what I can find on those!

[tomslik]

OK. For some reason I'm not reading very well (driving 150 miles under skies of various shades of gray). I don't understand if you're using a short water pump or not but here's a few parts sounces you might look at. The short water pump was use in trucks and Vettes past '67. Trucks til '71(?) and Vettes till '73(?). On of those animals had the power steering pump on the passenger side.


[b]maybe in ohio but the rest of the country had the ps pump under the alt with the short w/p.
sbc or bbc, both were the same way...
i've NEVER seen a pass side ps pump on a chevy.
can't think of any other brand that did on a conventional rwd setup[/b]

Now this was the era of the newer head with the mounting bosses and I'm sure if it was the Vette the power steering pump would have had to be mounted higher than the motor mounts. The vette also used a nice casting for the alternator that fit on the front of the drivers side head and it didn't look like it stuck too far for me. One day while going through the junk engine pile at the junkyard I found a water pump pulley on a small block chevy that I think was on a long water pump. This thing had four grooves, three regular sized and a smaller groove nearest the engine. I elongated the fan mounting holes to fit the short water pump pattern and all of the grooves missed hitting a short water pump housing and one of the grooves lined up with a single groove crank pulley. Now all of this playing around was to put a short water pump on a 4.5L V6 and it worked well enough to test run the engine with cooling and a short belt between the crank and water pump pulley and it didn't throw the belt. Maybe you could use one of these four groove pulleys. drive it from the crank and just take the power for your accessories from the exrta groves at the water pump? The '87 S15 GMC truck that I'm using on my Jeepster project has a nice little power steering pump on it's 2.5L four. It's remote fill and has the cogged pulley for serpentine belt drive. It's mount is non-adjustable because there is a spring loaded idler/tensioner on/in the system. Now my eyes are really tired. GPster

[enjenjo]

i've NEVER seen a pass side ps pump on a chevy.

I just had one here, 95 Caprice LT1.

[tomslik]

i've NEVER seen a pass side ps pump on a chevy.

I just had one here, 95 Caprice LT1.

i stand corrected..

[sirstude]

Look at the serpentine system that GM Performance Products sells.  LOTS cheaper than the aftermarket stuff.  

Doug