How not to do a straight axle

paul5456 · January 05, 2007, 10:49:11 PM

For all you guys that say this type of steering is bogus, NG or whatever, your all wrong. I had a rack, mounted to a tube axle, on a steel Model A roadster with a Boss 302 Ford, 4 speed and 9 inch. This car handled with the best of them. Many long milage, high speed trips with this car and NEVER had a problem with the front end. No wiggle, wobble or anything. I ran this car ten years. Ran straight as an arrow. Can't find enough words to tell how great it was.

tomslik · January 06, 2007, 09:16:52 AM

well, let's see some pics!
not calling you a liar, i just want to see how it was done,,,

slocrow · January 06, 2007, 11:38:22 AM

Yes, and I'd like to know how Leon's question is answered...........

Leon · January 06, 2007, 12:57:34 PM

The key word is "safely". If it is connected with the slip joint out of a steering column, that isn't safe. I've never seen a slip joint designed for continuous movement in the steering system. Let's see what you've got, Paul....

Fat Cat · January 06, 2007, 03:00:46 PM

Quote from: "Leon"The key word is "safely". If it is connected with the slip joint out of a steering column, that isn't safe. I've never seen a slip joint designed for continuous movement in the steering system. Let's see what you've got, Paul....

Then you need to look under the hood on any class 8 semi with the cab riding on air. The sterring shaft has a slip joint in it to allow the cab to rotate on the front cab pivot. I see them all day long. And that is on a 12 ton truck hauling 80,000 lbs of cargo. So I would think that it is possible to make a safe slip joint.

Crosley.In.AZ · January 06, 2007, 04:59:32 PM

Quote from: "Fat Cat"
Quote from: "Leon"The key word is "safely". If it is connected with the slip joint out of a steering column, that isn't safe. I've never seen a slip joint designed for continuous movement in the steering system. Let's see what you've got, Paul....

Then you need to look under the hood on any class 8 semi with the cab riding on air. The sterring shaft has a slip joint in it to allow the cab to rotate on the front cab pivot. I see them all day long. And that is on a 12 ton truck hauling 80,000 lbs of cargo. So I would think that it is possible to make a safe slip joint.

Lincolns had a slip yoke on trannys that had rollers that run in 3 large grooves on the output shaft and the drive shaft yoke. Real odd looking when it was apart

They can be safe.

I am interested in what was used by Paul.

:?

enjenjo · January 06, 2007, 06:24:57 PM

If the shaft is set up so it is level at ride height, going to the rack, there will not be that much movement. I have seen pickups with an active slip joint too.

I still object to an axle mounted rack, because it increases the unsprung weight. On a light car, 50 extra lbs mounted on the front axle will make a big difference. Even if it rides good, it would ride better without the extra weight.

paul5456 · January 06, 2007, 11:55:19 PM

I don't have the car any more, sold it a long time ago. I did have a slip joint out of a steering column and it was not unsafe. Sorry I can't show you the installation, but here the car. Car was originally built in 1970's. I certainly wouldn't run an unsafe car with the little guy in the back

enjenjo · January 07, 2007, 12:32:02 AM

Nice looking car. I don't think the setup is necessarily unsafe, there are just many ways to do it wrong. I'm glad yours was done right, and you were happy with it.

Years ago we used to set up 4x4 sand racers this way, but there was next to no suspension travel.

Leon · January 07, 2007, 03:20:14 AM

Quote from: "Fat Cat"
Then you need to look under the hood on any class 8 semi with the cab riding on air. The sterring shaft has a slip joint in it to allow the cab to rotate on the front cab pivot. I see them all day long. And that is on a 12 ton truck hauling 80,000 lbs of cargo. So I would think that it is possible to make a safe slip joint.

I should have worded that differently. My neighbor has a system like that on one of his trucks, and it's not something I would expect to see installed on a street rod. I have seen the telescoping parts out of a column used that way and I do believe it is not safe as it was not designed to handle the constant slipping. If that is the type he used, I still think it has potential for catastrophic failure. also, the slip yoke on a tranny is lubricated in that application and would be a little difficult to put on a steering column. Years ago I drove an early Chevy that had a Pinto cable to connect the rack and the owner also stated it was "safe". I felt lucky that I didn't wreck going around the block. There are many different ways to do things, that's why I asked what he used. I'm still not convinced that the parts out of a column that are pinned in place by injected plastic to keep them from moving are designed to be under constant movement. If he had a mod to provide lubrication to it, I'm interested in how it was done. Who knows, I might need something like that in the future

1FATGMC · January 07, 2007, 01:47:15 PM

I had thought about a straight axle for the lakester with a rack on it and I I was talking to a vender at NSRA Pueblo. He said I could get a splined shaft to take care of the situation. I can't remember who it was though.

If you had a U-joint that was in line with the rear spring mount you would only be talking about the movement for and aft of the axle as the spring compresses and that isn't too much on a car like that. At least that is the way I see it.

I decided to go a different way .

I did a Google and did find this, but they don't say what the travel is:

http://www.delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/chsteer/steering/shafts/splined/

Delphi Telescoping Splined Slip Joint

The Delphi Telescoping Splined Slip Joint isolates steering wheel feedback due to dynamic front-end suspension movement. It offers higher torsional rates over traditional slip joints, with improved noise characteristics and durability performance. The slip joint can be used in vehicles that require the intermediate shaft to stroke while maintaining torsional performance.

Benefits

Plastic overmolded splines for lower noise levels and better hand-wheel "feel"
Compact size fits most vehicle platforms
Superior long-term wear performance when compared to similar joints
Collapses under crash conditions
Low load to stroke for ease of assembly
Delphi Telescoping Splined Slip Joint - 58k

I don't like the looks of the rack on the axle if it is a fenderless car, with fenders it might be a different story.

c ya,

Sum

Rrumbler · January 08, 2007, 06:26:23 PM

No Limit Engineering has a kit for putting a rack on a solid axle (url below), and there was an article in one of the many magazines addressing an install; I searched for the article, but was unable to find it. In essence, though, the rack bolts to the axle, eliminating all of the linkage movement between the axle and the chassis, except for a slip joint in the steering shaft, between the column at the firewall, and the rack. This arrangement would eliminate all bumpsteer that is caused by the up and down movement of the short steering link on most early pickups, and other vehicles of similar design; it will not stop the off camber bumpsteer, caused by the arc movement of the wheels, though. Still, it has the potential to be a real improvement, where the solid axle is retained rather than converting to a clip or other IFS conversion. Slip joints in moving shafts are completely dependable, when properly designed, manufactured, installed, and maintained, and shouldn't be a problem in this application.

http://www.nolimit.net/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=61

1FATGMC · January 08, 2007, 06:43:50 PM

Quote from: "Rrumbler"No Limit Engineering ............. it will not stop the off camber bumpsteer, caused by the arc movement of the wheels, though........................
http://www.nolimit.net/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=61

If the axle is a solid axle what movement would there be at the ends of the axle other than the wheel turning???

c ya,

Sum