Body to Frame Alignment - Deuce 5 Window?

[seadog]

I'm working on getting the body mounted to the frame on my Deuce 5 window.  I can't get the cowl perpendicular to the frame rail.  With a couple of shims under the front body mount bolt the angle between the frame and the firewall is still about 87 degrees.  If I shim it anymore there will be a noticeable gap between the top of the rail and the lowermost body reveal.  I'm doing this in preparation to getting a hood top made.  Does this angle HAVE to be 90 degrees?  Looks to me like it does, otherwise there will be a problem at the grille shell when it comes to fitting the hood.  What am I missing here?  Help.

[WZ JUNK]

I'm working on getting the body mounted to the frame on my Deuce 5 window.  I can't get the cowl perpendicular to the frame rail.  With a couple of shims under the front body mount bolt the angle between the frame and the firewall is still about 87 degrees.  If I shim it anymore there will be a noticeable gap between the top of the rail and the lowermost body reveal.  I'm doing this in preparation to getting a hood top made.  Does this angle HAVE to be 90 degrees?  Looks to me like it does, otherwise there will be a problem at the grille shell when it comes to fitting the hood.  What am I missing here?  Help.

Well, I do not know the answer to your question but I will tell you how I did it.  I got the frame level by shimming it on jackstands.  I placed the body on the frame and I added shims between the frame and the body to get the door fit correct.  I never gave a thought to the angle at the cowl.  The hood I used needed trimming and it seems to work fine.  I thought most hoods (other than stock) are made large and you trim to fit.

Something that I worried about is the angle of the radiator and shell.  Mine seems to be out at the top but I think the rake of the car makes it look that way.  I did check it on the sides top and bottom and although the distances were not the same, they are close.

John

[Topsterguy]

When I did my 5-window ( it's a New Age Motorsports / Flatlanders body) I didn't shim the front at all, used one  one the rest if needed till the doors etc lined up, and didn't consider the angle on the cowel compared to the frame. Basically I worked my way forward with the hood, rad and shell and lined the hood up with the cowl and rad by shimming the rad mounts. Worked fine for me.  I used a Rootlieb hood and didn't trim it at all, just kept adjusting til it lined up.

[river1]

try these sites

http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/door-2.htm

http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/door-1.htm


they are for a roadster and four door, but they should help.

later jim

[C9]

I'm working on getting the body mounted to the frame on my Deuce 5 window.  I can't get the cowl perpendicular to the frame rail.  With a couple of shims under the front body mount bolt the angle between the frame and the firewall is still about 87 degrees.  If I shim it anymore there will be a noticeable gap between the top of the rail and the lowermost body reveal.  I'm doing this in preparation to getting a hood top made.  Does this angle HAVE to be 90 degrees?  Looks to me like it does, otherwise there will be a problem at the grille shell when it comes to fitting the hood.  What am I missing here?  Help.

The Deuce frame has a 2 degree kickup about in the middle of the cowl.
So your 87 degrees sounds ok.

The critical part to aligning the body in this area seems to be how the door gaps line up front and rear.
If you have the remainder of the body - behind the doors - sitting on the frame ok then the cowl should end up about right once the correct door gaps are achieved.

A properly made hood will line up correctly on the cowl and start at the proper angle toward the grille shell.
Properly made defined as the hood is cut so the cowl - hood gap is the same all the way across.

With the hood sitting at the proper angle, it should line up ok at the grille shell . . . you do want the same degree of gap between hood and grille shell all the way across - transversely speaking.

You may find you have to lower the radiator and grille shell as much as possible to achieve the proper hood line between cowl and grille shell.
If not, the hood line will run uphill and not look as good as it should.

I ran into this with my 32 roadster and ended up sitting the radiator on a pair of 1/2" neoprene rubber mounts - with nylocks on the bolts, stock springs were not used, the nylocks so the rubber is not overly compressed - it's worked well for 13 years and 42,000 miles.

The radiator in my 32 is a Walker, stock height, but the optional 1" chopped radiator would be a better fit in the 32.
(For the 31 on 32 frame rail cars, the 2" chopped 32 radiator works best.)

Note the cowl-hood transverse gap on my 31 on 32 rails project - with a 1" chopped radiator - the fit is incorrect.
Easily seen here and real easy to see when viewed from the top.

[C9]

This pic shows the proper transverse hood alignment at the grille shell.

Before the grille shell was lowered to the proper place, the middle of the hood had a wider gap than did the outside edges.
Again, transversely speaking.

[C9]

This pic shows a simple, adjustable bracket you can make so you can set the grille shell at the proper height as well as proper distance.

Made from 1/8" x 1" aluminum angle and 1/8" x 1" aluminum strap with several holes for height adjustment.

Longitudinal adjustment is accomplished by sliding the angle fore & aft in the slotted crossmember holes.

Set the angle of the grille shell so the hood sides will fit squarely.
You can make a temporary brace from a piece of alumnum strap or angle or chunk of wood.
Then you can cut the radiator rods to length and thread them - provided you're making your own.

I make radiator rods from stainless rod with a flat ground on the end for the radiator bracket and threading them.

[Dave]

I'm working on getting the body mounted to the frame on my Deuce 5 window.  I can't get the cowl perpendicular to the frame rail.  With a couple of shims under the front body mount bolt the angle between the frame and the firewall is still about 87 degrees.  If I shim it anymore there will be a noticeable gap between the top of the rail and the lowermost body reveal.  I'm doing this in preparation to getting a hood top made.  Does this angle HAVE to be 90 degrees?  Looks to me like it does, otherwise there will be a problem at the grille shell when it comes to fitting the hood.  What am I missing here?  Help.

I just concentrated on getting tbe door gaps right and didnt even consider the cowl. Then I hung the radiator and shell and made the rootlieb hood fit.
I shimmed the body 4 times till I got what I liked for gaps and proper opening of the doors.
Dave

[seadog]

Thanks.  As usual the members of this board have been most helpful.  This weekend I will revisit the problem with new knowledge of how to proceed.  Thanks again.

[C9]

I don't know what order the other guys shim the body, but what worked for me was to shim the drivers side, get the correct door gaps front and rear then do the passenger side.

When the passenger side was done, it threw the gaps etc. off a little on the drivers side.
A little shim juggling there and I had a nice fit both sides.

Altering the height of one shim seems to affect the rest and you can back yourself into a corner so to speak.
Even so, doing one side and then the other worked out the easiest for me.

Front wheel caster alignment shims for late models work well for body shims.
You can get em most places.
They're a U-shaped piece of flat metal and come in varying thicknesses.

Once I had the body shimmed the way I liked it, I pulled the shim stack, measured it and made aluminum washers of the thickness required.
These were stamped for location and re-installed.

If you pull all the shim stacks at once, wrap em with masking tape and label so there aren't any mistakes.

Be sure and leave enough gap for paint buildup.
I believe 1/8" is the usual recommendation.

I used a Stanley Wonder Bar for levering the body up off the frame.
It's wider than most pry bars and didn't damage the body.

After painting, I padded the Wonder Bar with black electricians tape.
That worked well and no scratches there.

The Wonder Bars can be found just about anywhere.
They're the wide - about 2" - pry bar for nail pulling etc.
A little over a foot long so they're very usable under the body.
The normal sized one is painted medium blue.

There's a newer small Wonder Bar out now and it's silver cad-plated.
It's a handy gadget as well.
These are about 6" - 8" long.

[Dave]

I don't know what order the other guys shim the body, but what worked for me was to shim the drivers side, get the correct door gaps front and rear then do the passenger side.

When the passenger side was done, it threw the gaps etc. off a little on the drivers side.
A little shim juggling there and I had a nice fit both sides.

Thats the way I did it


Altering the height of one shim seems to affect the rest and you can back yourself into a corner so to speak.
Even so, doing one side and then the other worked out the easiest for me.

Front wheel caster alignment shims for late models work well for body shims.
You can get em most places.
They're a U-shaped piece of flat metal and come in varying thicknesses.

Once I had the body shimmed the way I liked it, I pulled the shim stack, measured it and made aluminum washers of the thickness required.
These were stamped for location and re-installed.

I stuck with the shims

If you pull all the shim stacks at once, wrap em with masking tape and label so there aren't any mistakes.

I got the ones with the tab with the holes in em and used wire ties to hold em together.  Get em real tight and they also help getting em in place

Be sure and leave enough gap for paint buildup.
I believe 1/8" is the usual recommendation.

I also did it with an unpainted frame but I put frame welt down with masking tape cause it was gonna be there after assembly so i wanted to simulate that also


As i said earlier I shimmed and reshimmed about 4 times. after paint we set the body on installed the shims and that was that


I used a Stanley Wonder Bar for levering the body up off the frame.
It's wider than most pry bars and didn't damage the body.

After painting, I padded the Wonder Bar with black electricians tape.
That worked well and no scratches there.

The Wonder Bars can be found just about anywhere.
They're the wide - about 2" - pry bar for nail pulling etc.
A little over a foot long so they're very usable under the body.
The normal sized one is painted medium blue.

There's a newer small Wonder Bar out now and it's silver cad-plated.
It's a handy gadget as well.
These are about 6" - 8" long.

:!:

Dave

[C9]

One small one, Model A roadster's are easier to set up due to the 28-29 doors overlap at both ends.
The 30-31 doors overlap at the back end.

And of course the 32's doors are set within the body panels at both ends.

I've got my 31 roadster sitting on home-made body mounts and it looks like it will need to be shimmed in one place only.

Sometimes ya get lucky....