Here is a 700r4 question Tony? Frank?

[348tripower]

I put one in my F1 last fall and I am just getting things dialed in now.  The lockup happens about 45 to 50 mph, Dropping the rpm but I also have a switch to lock up the convertor, green wire to ground.   And when I throw that I get a different lock up. More postive than the vacuum switch lockup. Can anyone tell me why? Seems I have a controled slip when relying on the vacuum switch to lock the convertor up.
Thanks,
Don

[1FATGMC]

I put one in my F1 last fall and I am just getting things dialed in now.  The lockup happens about 45 to 50 mph, Dropping the rpm but I also have a switch to lock up the convertor, green wire to ground.   And when I throw that I get a different lock up. More postive than the vacuum switch lockup. Can anyone tell me why? Seems I have a controled slip when relying on the vacuum switch to lock the convertor up.
Thanks,
Don

I can't see why if the vacuum switch is just controlling an electrical switch.  It shouldn't matter to the lockup converter which one controls the circuit.  

I had a lockup converter go bad a number of years ago and it would lock up some, but also slip.  I quit locking it up until I could put in a new converter.  Gas mileage went down about 2-3 mpg :cry:  during that period.  That is one reason I'm not a fan of someone using a non-lockup converter with the 700R4 as you are giving up gas mileage.  

c ya, Sum

[348tripower]

Sum,
 I don't think it was ever locking up. Gotta checkthe vacuum side of this.
Don

[1FATGMC]

Sum,
 I don't think it was ever locking up. Gotta checkthe vacuum side of this.
Don

On the setups I've seen with a vacuum switch the only thing the vacuum switch does is open the circuit that controls the lockup, which is no more than a valve/solenoid combination, and unlocks the converter under low vacuum situations in 4th.  It has nothing to do with locking the converter except to lock it back up when the vacuum goes back up.  It is not responsible for locking the converter in the first place.

You control the lockup valve/solenoid with either the power side of the circuit going to it or the ground side of the circuit coming form it.  The vacuum switch can be locate in that circuit if you desire.

Look at the wiring diagram on my site.  If it doesn't make sense PM me or something.

Do you have a tach??  If so when it is in overdrive and supposed to be locked up if you jab the throttle the rpm should not go up 200-300 rpm.  If it is unlocked or not working (converter clutch slipping) you will see the rpm "jump" as the converter flashes under the sudden load.

Without a tach drive at 40 in 4th and punch the throttle off and on.  It should act like a manual car (*) in this situation and not like an automatic where the rpm jumps up and down and the road speed stays the same.

c ya, Sum

[Crosley.In.AZ]

if the vacuum switch   is defective , there may only be a partial voltage going to the solenoid in the tranny.

bypassing the switch , 12 volts directly to the trans would aid  in a diagnose of the situation perhaps?

[348tripower]

if the vacuum switch   is defective , there may only be a partial voltage going to the solenoid in the tranny.  
 
bypassing the switch , 12 volts directly to the trans would aid  in a diagnose of the situation perhaps?

Tony,  
That is the direction I am heading.  According to the instructions we are just grounding the switch to make the lockup, but as I said in a previous post it locks up fine when I switch manually. There is no slipping in the converter. I didn't get a chance to work on this yesterday, so I will probably wait till this weekend and try jumping around this switch.  
Thanks for the input and thanks to Sumner too.  
Don

[BFS57]

Hello;
I have had my problems with the same kind of thing on my '32 Vicky.
On my '57 chevy, however, different! I had to take the car back to the trans shop 3 x to make it right. They replaced the valve body and replaced the torque converter twice after I had them put a replacement in the first time.
Now everything is super! I can drive in 3 around town and when I hit the highway, shift into overdrive and when I want, flick a switch which supplies 12v to the plug on the side of the trans (get this) (NO GROUND!)
I read an article by Tony about how to hook up the lock up which I supplied to the trans shop and believe me I couldn't be happier! I think next I am going to put a relay on that circuit.
I think all this info is super. I now do a ton of search and read before I tackle any job I have to do because everyone has deferent views on just about any subject.

Bruce

[1FATGMC]

Now everything is super! I can drive in 3 around town and when I hit the highway, shift into overdrive and when I want, flick a switch which supplies 12v to the plug on the side of the trans (get this) (NO GROUND!)
Bruce

You have a ground, it is just internally grounded and you are controlling the lockup with the power (12v) side. You can do it either way.

Personally I think the toggle switch is a pain in the butt.  I have one on the 200R4 in the Buick and it will get replace with the TCI kit I have in 1FATGMC this winter.  Around most larger cities now the traffic is going so fast you are in and out of overdrive many times.

For all the money we spend on our cars, spending $75 more to have it lockup automatically going in and out of 4th seems an awful small price to pay and probably gets repaid with the price of gas by using 4th and the lockup more.

Not picking on you personally Bruce, just a pet pieve of mine :cry: .

c ya, Sum

[348tripower]

[/quote] For all the money we spend on our cars, spending $75 more to have it lockup automatically going in and out of 4th seems an awful small price to pay and probably gets repaid with the price of gas by using 4th and the lockup more

I agree with you Sum . I talked with TCI tech yesterday. I am going to adjust the switch to come on with less vacuum. Seems I am not pulling enough.  I'll update this post this weekend.
Don

[1FATGMC]

I talked with TCI tech yesterday. I am going to adjust the switch to come on with less vacuum. Seems I am not pulling enough.  I'll update this post this weekend.
Don

If you are using "un-ported manifold vacuum" the vacuum switch only comes into play when you are in 4th and under a low vacuum situation, like climbing a hill, but not giving it enough gas for it to down shift into 3rd.  Then it will unlock the converter so that you jump up in the torque range some and maybe avoid the shift into 3rd.  How often does that scenario come into play?  Not much, so why have the vacuum switch in the circuit.

Now if you are using "ported vacuum" the above holds true and also now any time you completely lift off the gas like coasting in 4th the converter will unlock and let the motor rpm's drop some since  the motor/transmission are now not 1 to 1 and locked together.  Theoretically this could save some gas, but how much I don't know.

I tried it both ways and determined for me it wasn't worth having the vacuum switch in the circuit and removing it just eliminated one more thing that could go wrong.

Remember the vacuum switch does "not" lock up the converter.  It unlocks it under low vacuum situations and re-locks it when the vacuum goes back up again.  It also has nothing to do with the 3-4 upshift or downshift.  I'll bet 90% of the time the vacuum goes low enough for the vacuum switch to come into play the transmission is going to downshift into 3rd anyway and then the vacuum switch becomes irrelevant.  A lot of the kits don't include one and even though I love TCI's kit they could have left the vacuum switch out in my view .

c ya, Sum

[rumrumm]

I had my 700R4 build with a hydraulic lockup. It saves a lot of hassle.

[348tripower]

I had my 700R4 build with a hydraulic lockup. It saves a lot of hassle.

I just printed the info from Sum's site. I am going with his wiring and eliminating the vacuum switch.
Don