Weird starter problem...

32 Chevy · January 29, 2006, 09:33:27 PM

The 32 Chev has been getting harder to start for quire a while now, and today finally decided not to start at all. I have done all the usual remedies like checking grounds, distributor, and everything is good but now I'm stumped. I know it is not an engine problem because when popping the clutch on a roll it will start instantly and runs great.

See if you can figure this out.... When I turn the key, you can hear the starter bendix gear klick in and then the engine goes R R R R like it should when it is turning over by the starter. Then the tone changes a bit and it hesitates for a sec and then keeps going rrrr at a slower speed. Now here is the best part. When it's making the first louder RRRRyou can see the fan turning and the crank is definitely going around. Then when the starter sound changes to the softer rrrr the crank quits turning...even though the starter is cranking. The starter is definitely turning but the crank is not. The flywheel and gear are perfect and is is not a problem of the bendix gear clashing on the flywheel gear. Is it possible for the bendix gear to slip on the starter shaft?

The engine is a 62 Buick aluminum V8 with 10.5:1 compression. Is it possible for a bendix to slip in the starter shaft

enjenjo · January 29, 2006, 09:46:11 PM

Sounds like it's time to have the starter rebuilt.

The starter drive had a clutch built into it so when the engine starts the gear uncouples from the starter, so the engine doesn't overspeed the starter, damaging the windings. This is a roller clutch, and they do go bad.

donsrods · January 29, 2006, 09:58:46 PM

I work in the Marine Industry, and starter problems are one of the biggest items we work on. So, here is where we begin:

There are only so many components in the starting system, but each one has to be operating at full potential to effect a good crank.

First is the battery. How old is it? If it is over 2 years old, it is automatically suspect. You have to test it under a load, using a tester made to do this. A voltmeter only reads surface charge. You need to know what the battery is putting out when you are really asking it to put out amps.

2nd are the cables. Are they shiny, clean and tight? Just a little corrosion will sap the kick out of a battery. Cables can also look good, and have too much internal resistance. Also make sure the battery posts are shiny and clean.

Next is the ground. Where do you run your ground cable? To the engine block right in the starter area is best. Make sure the cable is likewise clean, shiny and tight, and that the cable isn't failing you internally.

Finally is the starter ok. It sounds to me like it is time to get a new one. They only have so many cranks in them and then they go. Over time they start dragging down.

You might also want to check your charging system. If it is not keeping the battery at about 13 volts, you may have an issue there,,,,,,,,,especially with 10.5 compression.

One quick way to save yourself some headaches is to drive down to the local auto store (we have autozones in this area) that offer to put your car on a tester free of charge. It will tell you what each component is doing, and pinpoint the problem. FREE.

It is really very simple, if the battery, the cables, the starter, and the ground system is operating correctly, the car will crank. If any one of these is not up to par, then it doesn't.

Hope this helps. Don

docchevy · January 29, 2006, 10:12:07 PM

I had a similar problem with my Camaro. I replaced the starter and battery to no avail. Then I continued to crank the engine until a puff of smoke came out from under the hood! Upon investigation, the secondary groundwire to the frame from the frame had burned up. This meant that the battery cable to the engine was bad. It turns out it was corroded INSIDE the insulation. Upon replacement it starts well. Good luck.

32 Chevy · January 29, 2006, 10:29:03 PM

I have completely done the entire typical electrical troubleshooting of the starting system. The problem is not electrical, it is mechanical. The starter is definitely operating. The problem is that when the starter motor is turning, and it sounds like the flywheel is engaged and the engine is turning over, the crank does not turn. Something has to be slipping, either the gear ring on the flywheel is slipping on the flywheel or the bendix gear is slipping on the starter motor shaft.

Dave

donsrods · January 29, 2006, 11:20:03 PM

Ok, let's look at mechanical. You mentioned the ringgear may be slipping on the flywheel. Possible, but I don't think so. If it was engaging like you said, then not engaging, I would think the starter would spin FASTER once it started slipping on the flywheel, because there would be no resistance from the engine not being turned over.

If you have truly trouble shot everything electrical, then your problem is most likely the starter itself. You say you are watching the engine fan and crank go around then they stop when the problem begins. I think you should climb under the car (jackstands please) and have someone crank it. If you have a removable flywheel shield, take it off, and paint a white line on the inner part of the flywheel and onto the ring gear. Crank it, and see if the two lines change positions relative to each other. You can also see what is happening when the starter begins to screw up.

I'm betting starter.

Jokester · January 29, 2006, 11:38:22 PM

Something has to be slipping, either the gear ring on the flywheel is slipping on the flywheel or the bendix gear is slipping on the starter motor shaft.

When I was in trade school we had a chevy come in that had the ring gear slipping on the flywheel. It was a steel gear on an aluminum flywhee. We drilled holes in the ring gear and pinned it to the flywheel. That solved problem.

But in this case I'd say starter.

my 2 cents.

.bjb

donsrods · January 29, 2006, 11:51:11 PM

The reason I am saying starter is because I really feel if the ring gear were sllipping the cranking would actually speed up when it slipped.......no engine to turn over.

Starters do wierd things. Just a month or so ago my Jeep truck with the Mustang 5.0 started giving me symptoms of a missing tooth or two on the flywheel. Every once and a while I would go to start it and would get that Zinging sound like the bendix gear was hitting missing teeth. If I cranked it a couple of times, it would finally engage. So I am thinking "Great, now I've got to pull the tranny and flywheel."

Luckily one day it just quit working. I say luckily because it happened at my shop, and the starter just started smoking. I pulled the starter out and found the bendix was frozen in the unengaged position, as the bearing in the starter had failed. I happened to have a couple more starters in the shop, so I put one on and bingo........problem gone. Took me all of 5 minutes to fix, and I had been living with the problem for weeks.

I think you should invest the $ 29.95 or whatever, and try another starter. It could be something else, but the 30 bucks or so will be a cheap way to find out.