Who says you can't work on them anymore?

[jaybee]

Lately I've been giving a lot of to late model vehicles and how they're constructed, a situation that's been at least partly provoked by having our minivan go down with a dead cylinder just as I took my car down for a timing belt change.  I blame Denise's Dad, since the van threw a trouble code and started to run rough just as we loaded his tire in to get it balanced   .

I don't know that it's an opinion shared by a lot of RRT'rs, but I disagree with the notion that the average person can't work on late model cars at home.  In fact I'd go so far as to say that in many ways the cars of today are better to work on than in times past.  Sure, everything is really close to something else and you can't disassemble the entire car with one wrench, but let's face it;  that ship sailed a number of decades ago.

On the other hand, today's cars don't need as much maintenance as older ones.  My first car needed points and plugs about every 6,000-7,500mi IF I bought good parts.  Ball joints, tie rod ends, tires, and a lot of other things were good for 20,000-30,000 miles.  In short, I don't work on my cars NEARLY as much as I sed to.

Next up, diagnostics.  A quick trip to Autozone to read codes, a call to a friend who works as a mechanic, and I had Pin Point Tests to lead me directly to the problem on my van.  Everything was in "if A, then B" form.  It really was that easy.  You say you don't have access to that information?  Many public libraries have Alldata subscriptions, including my home town.  It's easier for me to have my buddy print out the tests, but I could do it on my own.

The problem was a Powertrain Control Module, or engine computer.  It wasn't exactly cheap, but I would've spent at least as much on points, condensers, additional sets of plugs, and rebuild kits for Autolite carburetors on my first car in the time we've driven this one.  PCMs are much less expensive than in the early days of EFI, and far more reliable.  My mechanic friend says he doesn't remember replacing a Ford PCM in years.  Best of all, I didn't buy a single part it didn't need.

More on those parts.  Rubber parts last forever compared to the 'good old days'.  Plastic parts don't get brittle and crack at the slightest touch.  Same with wiring, and electrical connectors almost never get corrosion inside and fail.  Things like silicone rubber, reusable gaskets and bolts with positive stops to prevent overcompression are a joy to work with.

All of this leads to something my mechanic friend said.  "This stuff is all straight out of Japanese cars from 1980."  Well, that's an intriguing thought that says a lot about how Toyota, Honda, et. al. gained market share during the '70s and '80s.  Good to see that Detroit at least has enough sense to copy some things that work.

Enough, the keys to the Rambler are back on the hook.  Thanks for reading my little editorial.

[enjenjo]

I agree with you in most cases. It was unheard of to get 200,000 or more out of a car 40 years ago, but is now common place. Oil leaks for the most part are a thing of the past.

One problem area is in the area of standard parts. For over 20 years, all GM cars , many Mopars and Fords, all used one of two headlight switches, that retailed for less than $20. Now each model has a different switch, that can be as expensive as $150. This doesn't make sense to me.

The other area is location of controls. I have two GM cars, made the same year, one has the wiper switch on the left, and the other on the right. Even the different modes, pulse, delay, and so forth are done differently. It makes it harder to move from car to car than it needs to be.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

I will add to enjenjo comments about the switches..... often the * over priced pile of poop will get hot , melt , start a fire.  Same with the ignition switches .  Although the OE guys seem to be relay friendly on many things now.

My new 2006 GM truck , all it takes to start the engine is a blip of the igniton switch.  A relay takes over control of the starter, it cranks till the motor lites off


The OBD-II stuff will give you a good pointer to a problem in many cases , other times NOPE.  I imagine ol Tomslik  can add to this , I believe he does a daily job thing with repairing cars. He offered warnings on my VW Jetta before I made the purchase.

My 2001 Ford truck I used to own had a coil on spark plug deal.  One cylinder went dead in the 5.4 motor. OBD-II scan showed a miss fire in cyl 6.  I swapped coils between cyl 1 & 6..... I then had a miss fire in cyl 1.  A new coil from Glen's dealership fixed the problem.


BTW........ current fuel mileage on the TDI Jetta is 40.4 mpg

[tomslik]

Lately I've been giving a lot of to late model vehicles and how they're constructed, a situation that's been at least partly provoked by having our minivan go down with a dead cylinder just as I took my car down for a timing belt change.  I blame Denise's Dad, since the van threw a trouble code and started to run rough just as we loaded his tire in to get it balanced   .

I don't know that it's an opinion shared by a lot of RRT'rs, but I disagree with the notion that the average person can't work on late model cars at home.  In fact I'd go so far as to say that in many ways the cars of today are better to work on than in times past.  Sure, everything is really close to something else and you can't disassemble the entire car with one wrench, but let's face it;  that ship sailed a number of decades ago.

On the other hand, today's cars don't need as much maintenance as older ones.  My first car needed points and plugs about every 6,000-7,500mi IF I bought good parts.  Ball joints, tie rod ends, tires, and a lot of other things were good for 20,000-30,000 miles.  In short, I don't work on my cars NEARLY as much as I sed to.

Next up, diagnostics.  A quick trip to Autozone to read codes, a call to a friend who works as a mechanic, and I had Pin Point Tests to lead me directly to the problem on my van.  Everything was in "if A, then B" form.  It really was that easy.


90% of the time it's that easy.
it's that 10% that separates the $$$ from the wallet


try fixing with a flow chart that is incorrect or just plain wrong or is a proggramming problem (reflash)



 You say you don't have access to that information?  Many public libraries have Alldata subscriptions, including my home town.  It's easier for me to have my buddy print out the tests, but I could do it on my own.

The problem was a Powertrain Control Module, or engine computer.  It wasn't exactly cheap, but I would've spent at least as much on points, condensers, additional sets of plugs, and rebuild kits for Autolite carburetors on my first car in the time we've driven this one.  PCMs are much less expensive than in the early days of EFI, and far more reliable.  My mechanic friend says he doesn't remember replacing a Ford PCM in years.  Best of all, I didn't buy a single part it didn't need.

More on those parts.  Rubber parts last forever compared to the 'good old days'.  Plastic parts don't get brittle and crack at the slightest touch.


yeah,right


Same with wiring, and electrical connectors almost never get corrosion inside and fail.


more bs....

it depends on what part of the country you live in..

i'll take a pic of this grand am i got the joy of working on about corrosion.
guys, a LOT of this stuff relies on a GOOD connection because of low current and voltages.

not pickin' on ya but the late model stuff IS harder to work on in most areas.
lemme tell ya, a pair of pliers ain't gonna cut it anymore  


 Things like silicone rubber, reusable gaskets and bolts with positive stops to prevent overcompression are a joy to work with.





All of this leads to something my mechanic friend said.  "This stuff is all straight out of Japanese cars from 1980."  Well, that's an intriguing thought that says a lot about how Toyota, Honda, et. al. gained market share during the '70s and '80s.  Good to see that Detroit at least has enough sense to copy some things that work.

Enough, the keys to the Rambler are back on the hook.  Thanks for reading my little editorial.

[tomslik]

I will add to enjenjo comments about the switches..... often the * over priced pile of poop will get hot , melt , start a fire.  Same with the ignition switches .  Although the OE guys seem to be relay friendly on many things now.

My new 2006 GM truck , all it takes to start the engine is a blip of the igniton switch.  A relay takes over control of the starter, it cranks till the motor lites off


The OBD-II stuff will give you a good pointer to a problem in many cases , other times NOPE.  I imagine ol Tomslik  can add to this , I believe he does a daily job thing with repairing cars. He offered warnings on my VW Jetta before I made the purchase.

My 2001 Ford truck I used to own had a coil on spark plug deal.  One cylinder went dead in the 5.4 motor. OBD-II scan showed a miss fire in cyl 6.  I swapped coils between cyl 1 & 6..... I then had a miss fire in cyl 1.  A new coil from Glen's dealership fixed the problem.


aw,hell, it coulda been worse.
coulda been #3 or #4.
with rear air....
5.4's SUCK!
4.6's ain't much better

BTW........ current fuel mileage on the TDI Jetta is 40.4 mpg

[Inprimer]

Lately I've been giving a lot of to late model vehicles and how they're constructed, a situation that's been at least partly provoked by having our minivan go down with a dead cylinder just as I took my car down for a timing belt change.  I blame Denise's Dad, since the van threw a trouble code and started to run rough just as we loaded his tire in to get it balanced   .

I don't know that it's an opinion shared by a lot of RRT'rs, but I disagree with the notion that the average person can't work on late model cars at home.  In fact I'd go so far as to say that in many ways the cars of today are better to work on than in times past.  Sure, everything is really close to something else and you can't disassemble the entire car with one wrench, but let's face it;  that ship sailed a number of decades ago.

On the other hand, today's cars don't need as much maintenance as older ones.  My first car needed points and plugs about every 6,000-7,500mi IF I bought good parts.  Ball joints, tie rod ends, tires, and a lot of other things were good for 20,000-30,000 miles.  In short, I don't work on my cars NEARLY as much as I sed to.

Next up, diagnostics.  A quick trip to Autozone to read codes, a call to a friend who works as a mechanic, and I had Pin Point Tests to lead me directly to the problem on my van.  Everything was in "if A, then B" form.  It really was that easy.  You say you don't have access to that information?  Many public libraries have Alldata subscriptions, including my home town.  It's easier for me to have my buddy print out the tests, but I could do it on my own.

The problem was a Powertrain Control Module, or engine computer.  It wasn't exactly cheap, but I would've spent at least as much on points, condensers, additional sets of plugs, and rebuild kits for Autolite carburetors on my first car in the time we've driven this one.  PCMs are much less expensive than in the early days of EFI, and far more reliable.  My mechanic friend says he doesn't remember replacing a Ford PCM in years.  Best of all, I didn't buy a single part it didn't need.

More on those parts.  Rubber parts last forever compared to the 'good old days'.  Plastic parts don't get brittle and crack at the slightest touch.  Same with wiring, and electrical connectors almost never get corrosion inside and fail.  Things like silicone rubber, reusable gaskets and bolts with positive stops to prevent overcompression are a joy to work with.

All of this leads to something my mechanic friend said.  "This stuff is all straight out of Japanese cars from 1980."  Well, that's an intriguing thought that says a lot about how Toyota, Honda, et. al. gained market share during the '70s and '80s.  Good to see that Detroit at least has enough sense to copy some things that work.

Enough, the keys to the Rambler are back on the hook.  Thanks for reading my little editorial.

I've always hated "new car' technology, cut to the chase, I got a phone call from my son in Va about 600+ miles from here... "Dad   they want $1600 to replace the rad,water pump and  dist module on the LT1 motor. we bought new alum rad,waterpump and weird dist  for $500 while we were at it we changed rad hoses,thermostat,serp belt and new anti freeze for  less than $600 total,10  hrs so,but since I'm retired who cares.After all that the motor still had a skip in it. we brought it top a friend's gas  sta,checked out the eng code.... Seems the previous owner had a "tuneup" done a a local repair shop AKA a Tire store,he had had nothing but trouble and gave up sold the poncho to my kid for a song, the engine code ssaid to ck out #7 wire/plug the reality was they never changed that plug it was an AC Delco with 105,000 miles on it. the car now runs like a bear  My son relaced all the plugs and with the 6 speed it flys.The  moral is with a little help from the code reader its actually easier to diagnose the problem not like the lod days where we changed everthing hoping to find a cure. Glad we fixed it and now my kid  thinks I'm the great mechanic lol

[C9]

Next up, diagnostics.  A quick trip to Autozone to read codes, a call to a friend who works as a mechanic, and I had Pin Point Tests to lead me directly to the problem on my van.  Everything was in "if A, then B" form.  It really was that easy.  You say you don't have access to that information?  Many public libraries have Alldata subscriptions, including my home town.  It's easier for me to have my buddy print out the tests, but I could do it on my own.

Interesting and well written.

Not many of us have access to diagnostic tools such as the ones at Autozone and your friend's garage.

A code reader is about as good as we can do.

Aside from that, most of the other stuff is easy to work on although I wonder about heater cores in modern vehicles.

They don't seem to last like they used to.
Plus, the * things are buried deep in the dash and it's a serveral afternoons project to pull and replace them.

When I replaced the heater core on my 88 Mustang - purchased new - a few years back, the back seat and part of the front looked like an explosion in a plastics factory considering all the panels I had to pull.

Working on the 32 is easy.
I can remove the hood, grille shell, radiator in a half hour or so and the timing cover et al is accessible for an easy cam swap.
The whole job takes about four hours working by myself.

Try that with your modern car . . . then call me when the week's work is done....

[jaybee]

"Try that with your modern car . . . then call me when the week's work is done...."

I won't dispute that for a minute.  The down side of late models include everything everything being packed in too tight for easy access.  Without question a lot of parts need to be removed to get at anything, but then again the heater core on my '69 Cougar with A/C was an incredible pain to get at.  Difficult access goes back at least 30 years, long enough to get into what the average person considers an antique.  Recently I saw a simple code reader at WalMart for less than $70.00.  Sure, it doesn't test everything the $1500.00 scanner at the dealership will, but I still maintain it's easier than chasing something that "sounds like a carburetor problem, but then again it could be ignition."  And yes, the new ones sometimes still have aggravating, hard to diagnose problems.  Most machinery does.  So in final analysis what's easier to work on, older and simpler, or new-style?  I say neither, they're just different.  I certainly am not trying to make a case that new cars are the only ones worth having.  If I felt that way I'd spend my internet time on a rice burner site.  I'm just saying don't be afraid of the new technology.  In the end it's all machinery.  New or old, most of it's cool in some way.  Except for the Renault LeCar I had in the '80s.  May it rust in pieces.  

[C9]

You don't need a code reader for ChryCo cars as I remember.

Bad part is, I can't remember exactly how you go about it, but it's something along the lines of turning the ignition switch on - dead engine - turning it off then turning it back on again and counting pulses from the engine check light.

Enjenjo would probably know.

The codes are somewhere on the net as well.

A lotta help, I know, but there ya go....

[Crosley.In.AZ]

You don't need a code reader for ChryCo cars as I remember.

Bad part is, I can't remember exactly how you go about it, but it's something along the lines of turning the ignition switch on - dead engine - turning it off then turning it back on again and counting pulses from the engine check light.

Enjenjo would probably know.

The codes are somewhere on the net as well.

A lotta help, I know, but there ya go....

Seems like 3 cycles of the ignition switch without starting the engine would trigger the check engine light to flash codes with the ignition switch left 'on' after the 3 on - off cycles

[SKR8PN]

Yup..........on off-on off- on...............then count the flashes............that sorta went  away when OBDII got real popular,around 1995
GOD that makes me feel old...............
Speaking of OLD...........
I was poking around in the deep dark confines of my toolbox and came across a tool I hadn't used in YEARS.........a TACH/DWELL METER!!

[parklane]

Speaking of OLD...........
I was poking around in the deep dark confines of my toolbox and came across a tool I hadn't used in YEARS.........a TACH/DWELL METER!! [/quote]

It still comes in handy for low speed RPM when setting up a carb for idle

John

[Skip]

I think I'd rather replace the steering box on my '34 than teh rack and pinion on a Caravan.