C9 To The Rescue

[Bib_Overalls]

When I built my 32 Ford roadster I used a Vintique tank and used a length of 5/16 hose to extend the vent.  I clamped the open end of the hose to the highest point on the underside of the floor; the top of the "arch" just forward of the rear cross member.

Even so, fulel would siphon out of the tube when the tank was full.

Jay Carnine gave me the fix.  Run a loop of tubing inside the trunk and behind the upholstery.  The attached, somewhat fuzzy pictures show how I did the job.

Jay tells me he runs a closed system with the loopp plumbed to a charcoal canister and another line to engine vacuum.  I am going to try the open vent but if fumes are a problem I know the fix.

[Bib_Overalls]

I welded a tab to the inner structure and attached the tubing with a rubber insullated clamp.  The white stuff is epoxie.  I used it to secure the tubing to the floor and seal the opening.  The loop is about 18" tall.

[C9]

I like the way you ran hard line up and down.
Much better way to go than flex line that I did.

It looks like the epoxy seals off the trunk area.
I'd say that works just fine.
With the steel body in the 31 I planned to use bulkhead fittings in the floor for the vent line and that's still viable with the hard line.
I'm still planning on building two 6-8 gallon fuel tanks inside the frame rails ahead of the rear axle.
Maybe doing it that way I can save some trunk space.
Especially if I run over the frame headers.

Here's the rundown on what I did with my 32 vent line.
The Mark 1 version was simply a loop that went up as high as possible from the in-trunk fuel cell and back down through the floor ending up even with the bottom of the frame rail and Adel clamped to the frame rail.
It worked pretty good, but I still got a faint smell of gasoline when I entered the garage and really got a dose of it whenever I was under the car and near the vent line.

The Mark 2 version cured that problem and made it safer to boot.
The vent line still loops up inside the trunk and after exiting the floor it goes to a charcoal cannister.
Said cannister a small metal one with built in bracket - found under the hood at the front left of Toyota pickups about late 80's - early 90's era.  (I knew those Toyota's were good for something....)
From the cannister it goes to an Earls inline fuel filter.
Earls makes two styles of fuel filters, the one you want has a stainless screen.  This particular filter is very similar to the inline spark suppressor you find on Acetylene lines.
From the filter the vent line goes to the air filter on the engine.
When it ran dual quads, the rear filter was tapped into and now with a single quad it simply taps into a 90 degree fitting adapted to the sheet metal base of that.

In both cases, the vent line taps into the clean air area of the filter.
Which is why I went to the spark arrester/filter deal. A bit of overkill perhaps, but having a potential flame from a backfire travel into the fuel cell....

The vent line at the air filter does not source from engine vacuum.
There is a small possibility there could be a touch of vacuum due to the venturi effect of air rushing by the open end of the vent line at wide open throttle high airflow conditions, but I don't think so.
Perhaps I need to tap into the vent line with a sensitive vacuum gauge and take a reading, but the car will run through the gears without running out of fuel or having the fuel pressure drop more than 1 to 1 1/2# below normal.

This system is very close to what the factory does with their charcoal cannister installations and has the added safety factor of the filter/arrester in the vent line.

Fwiw, the vent line is #6 and the fuel line is #8.
Competition cars usually require equal size lines, but this size choice works well on the street.

I had an interesting experience with this system at the gas station a couple of months back.
The station, a brand new one with the new style vapor recovery nozzles.
The fuel cell takes fuel fairly slow.  That due to the spring loaded flapper valve in the filler tube.
When the tank got full, fuel went out the vent line and dumped under the rear of the car from the charcoal cannister which has an opening in it just for such an event.
I thought at first something was wrong with my car, but it was the gas station having a problem with their vent system.
A new pickup just across from me had the same problem.
Needless to say I pushed the 32 about 30' away before I fired it up.

Nice part was, the gas station problem showed that I wouldn't be pumping the engine/engine compt. full of fuel if the fuel filler didn't shut off automatically like it's supposed to.

[Sean]

Hey Bib, whats that thing you are using as an Avatar?

[Bib_Overalls]

Hey Bib, whats that thing you are using as an Avatar?

That is the crest of the 7th Cav Regiment.  In 1965 I went to Viet Nam with the first battalion.  One of our actions was depicted in the movie "We Were Soldiers".  

For a long time I kept that part of my life pushed back a little.  But since the movie came out I have let it come forward a bit.  Don't push it. but occasionally I can be seen wearing a cap with a small 1st Cav Division patch.

[Sean]

That was a good movie. I sure wouldn't have wanted to be in that mess... How accurate was it, compared to the real thing?

Reason I asked about the Avatar was because it looks like a Variation of my Familys "Clan Badge". What does it say at the top? May just be my computer screen, but I can't read it.

[Dave]

I ran mine to the highest point and then decided if any gas leaked out it would run down the hose and drip on the tail pipes. I made a new head for the vent and hooked up a plastic nylon push in hose type fitting then ran that down to the inside of the frame so if it dripped it would just hit the ground. Beware we make fuel fittings and stuff where i work and we make some stuff for poly tanks and tanks who make street rod stuff. from what the engineers tell me the poly tanks are porus and you will always smell fuel even if its not comming from the vent. This is why they dont suggest painting a poly tank.. My 34 also had a poly tank and what was interesting was the longer i owned it the more fuel i could smell at different times. I mounted the vent on the 34 inside the body under the fender.. If i had it to do again id put a steel tank on the 32 but I can still do that later.. :b-d:
Dave

[Bib_Overalls]

That was a good movie. I sure wouldn't have wanted to be in that mess... How accurate was it, compared to the real thing?

I'd say it was 80% history and 20% Hollywood.  I think Randall Wallace, the producer/director set out to portray the fight at LZ X-Ray in a fair and historically correct context.  For trhe most part he did a good job.  But there were a couple of things about the movie that I take exception to.  First, X-Ray was not our first fight and we did not fly in from our base camp.  We had made contact a number of times and we were seasoned.  Our insertion at X-Ray came after two weeks of patroling along the Cambodian border.  Second, the fight did not end with an American charge.  They quit.  We won.  It was just that simple.  But that is not how battles end in Hollywood.


Reason I asked about the Avatar was because it looks like a Variation of my Familys "Clan Badge". What does it say at the top? May just be my computer screen, but I can't read it.

It says "Garryowen".  When the regiment was formed shortly after the Civil War it had an unusually large number of Irish imigrants. Garryowen was one of the songs that they sang.  Eventually it became the Regimental song and the title became the Regimental motto.  There is a small town on the Crow Indian Resevation in Montana adjacent to the Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument named Garryowen.

[Sean]

I'd say it was 80% history and 20% Hollywood.

Well thats not bad then. Grandpa says all the WWII/Marine movies are about 90% Hollywood...  

[Pope Downunder]

I welded a tab to the inner structure and attached the tubing with a rubber insullated clamp.  The white stuff is epoxie.  I used it to secure the tubing to the floor and seal the opening.  The loop is about 18" tall.

Good idea.
I ran a rubber fuel line from the rollover valve, over the wheel arch and it dangles down just below the running board.  It has never spilled, and odors are not a problem.

[flt-blk]

I am using the small vent in a fuel cell gas cap.  
The gas tank is under the bed of my A pickup, kinda like a 32 style.
Is there any problem not having a "Fancy" vent?

TZ

[jaybee]

I'm still planning on building two 6-8 gallon fuel tanks inside the frame rails ahead of the rear axle.
Maybe doing it that way I can save some trunk space.
Especially if I run over the frame headers.

Jay, tell us more about your plan for frame rail tanks.  Seems to me that fuel supply is one of the stickier points of builing an A.  A decent sized tank in the trunk occupies a major part of the available space.  Although it gets done a lot I'm not real comfortable with a fuel filler inside the trunk, either.  Several people here have expressed the sentiment that saddle tanks seem very exposed in a side impact, and of course they aren't an option in a highboy.  Filling is an issue with this setup as well.  Forget about putting gasoline over my lap like the originals.  You always have something interesting up your sleeve, I'd love to hear your plans.

[C9]

The 31 roadster body sits on 32 rails which are wider than A rails.
I'm not sure by how much, but enough so that sticking inside the frame tanks under the body is a viable option.

If I remember fight, the tanks will be 6 x 14 x 19".
That makes for a seven gallon tank.
There is room ahead of the tank to fit a smaller rectangle tank which would be part of the main tank as described above. about 4 x 10 x 12" adding 2 gallons.
Totalling both sides = 14 gallons and adding both extension tanks makes for a grand total of 18 gallons which would be a nice size.
My 32 has 12 gallons usable in a 16 gallon fuel cell - there could be more fuel usable, but I've never ran it out and a fraction over 12 gallons is the most I've ever put in it.
The 12 gallons is a good size for practical use even at 15 mpg on the highway.  About a hundred miles and I need get out and walk around for a while regardless of the car I'm driving.

This first pic shows a mockup of the headers that may be used.

[C9]

This second pic of the bare frame shows where the tanks go.
In front of the rear axle and behind the 4-link/safety belt/roll bar lateral crossmembers.
It will fit between the 4-links - which are not installed in this pic - and driveshaft, also not installed.

The battery in this car will go in the trunk although I may be able to find room for it between the trans double crossmembers and the 4-link et al crossmember.  That depends on how far the tank extensions go toward the front if at all.
Still thinking about that part of it.

All of this stuff hinges on where the exhaust runs.
It's obvious there ain't gonna be much room for mufflers, but I have a couple ideas along those lines.
I wouldn't be resistant in running home-made muffs alongside the outer frame rails.
Still thinking about that part too.

Getting back to the battery install, the 32's battery is hung below the body in front of the rear axle and it's a good place for it for a number of reasons.