Hey C9....re: plug wire pic and Aircraft to Auto confusion

[56ngirl]

I just happened to notice the blue and red fittings and steel braided hosing on that sexy engine of yours....

A while back there was a request for help with the routing of a fuel line; and a statement was made in regards to the terminology associated with fittings.  AN-fittings, NPT, and the such.  I answered with a tentitive explanation of the terms from my Aircraft hardware backaround..but found myself out beyond my knowledge pretty quick.

My question is as such: since aircraft flares are made at a 37 degree flare, then are those blue fittings genuine aircraft fittings?  Do you have two flaring kits that you have to alternate between?

The blue fittings I work with on a daily basis are always stamped the same, and I have seen fittings on vehicles that are the same blue, but with no stampings...so is there a manufacturer that makes them specifically for automotive, that are at a 45 degree flare?  

Then the term Aeroquip hose came up....and in helicopters it's expensive stuff and usually come with the fittings when you order the part number out of the IPB....but in my general supply books, there are part numbers for the 'screw-in' fittings and instructions for hose assembly and testing.  Where does this come in for Automotive applications....could I buy it at Lordco/NAPA?

Now I've got my head all turned upside down and feel a little sheepish for all the effort of trying to sound smart....Maybe someone could set me straight? :oops:

Thank you!!!!

[enjenjo]

The blue fittings are 37 degree. And NAPA does carry a limited selection of them in the performance catalog. You can get a much better selection from Speedway, or Summit Racing. Aeroquipt does make them too and the pricing is similar, Earl's is another popular brand. Earl's has a better selection of adapter fittings.

I don't know about Jay, but I have two flaring tools. But unless you are working with steel line, the 45 degree flare tool works fine for flaring the tubing.  For that matter, I have mixed AN tube nuts, and SAE fittings to make up an adapter I couldn't find with, no ill effects. Since I have a lathe, I have made my own fittings too, I hate stacking fittings to make a connection. A blue sharpie makes a pretty good match for the blue adonizing

I also turn custom fittings for power steering, brake,  and AC lines, like I said, I hate stacking fittings.

The AN fitting designations are used on the automotive fittings, but they are not certified so the price is lower, and they are not marked with the aircraft marking. I have run across certified fitting in surplus stores, and they will interchange.

Some of the manufacturers, Earl's for one, have come up with an alternate hose, black plastic braided, or blue in the case of Aeroquipt, that is both lighter and cheaper than the SS braided hose, and it uses the same fittings.

If you order the hose and fittings seperate, make sure you get no skive fittings, much easier to assemble.

[34ford]

I have a friend who worked at a local place that services and does complete make overs on planes from small pipers to lear jets and some small commercial planes. When they replace hoses they keep the old ones for a certain length of time. (these have the aeroequip fittings on them) Don't know if that's incase the customer wants to see it or if it's something to do with the feds regulations. They have a whole garage of the hoses and fittings. Some are the stainless and others are stainless with a nylon covering over the stainless. They clean out the garage every once and a while and he use to get some for me. Sad news is he is no longer there.   He's now a paint rep  so that might help when I get ready to start the paint process in the next few months.

So why am I rambling on. If you know anybody who works at one of these places maybe they can get you the old lines and fittings cause they cannot reuse them once they replace them.

Just a thought.

bob

[C9]

Enjenjo covered it quite well.

I do much the same as he does as far as altering or making up a fitting to avoid stacking a bunch of them.
As a small example, male pipe plugs in the larger sizes - 3/8 - 1/2"NPT have enough 'meat' in the hex portion to drill and tap for 1/8"NPT.

I've also JB Welded (JB is an epoxy for meteals that works very well) a drilled out Earls fitting to one that had the threads turned mostly off.
The remaining threads help - as does a groove, shallow threads or a rough surface on the drilled out fitting - hold the pieces together, but it's probably not required.
JB does well on any surface that's not buffed to sheen, but a little extra tooth or grip doesn't hurt.
Granted, not FAA approved, but it's an ok way to do things on a low
pressure system in a car.

Earls (take a look at their site) makes a red, blue & black rubber hose that's good to 250 psi.
I gave this stuff a try in my stock 50 Plymouth coupe without crimping the ferrules - as Earls recommends - and it worked fine in a max 80 psi oiling system.

The blue line you see in my 32 is from an oil field supply house.
You can get the same stuff at hydraulic supply houses, some bearing houses and some farm (tractor) supply stores.
Most of it is good to 3000 psi (thousands are right) and is what I use in the oil system in the roadster.
I  comes in gloss black, flat black and gloss sky blue colors.
The outer jacket is woven nylon for abrasion protection.
The blue line in the engine pic is a vacuum line.
I also run blue #10 braided nylon lines from oil filter remote adapter to the oil filters which are on the frame under the passenger seat.

Little brother ran the nylon covered lines in his Henry J drag racer when it was first up and running.
He also ran the fuel lines with this stuff and it worked well.
My initial fire-up with the 32 also ran oil & fuel nylon lines, but my fuel lines were different from his and 24 hours later they leaked like a sieve.
That was replaced with the first Earls braided stainless line and it's been Earl's ever since.
If you decided to use this stuff for fuel lines, test it by putting a short piece in a sealed can of gasoline for 24 hours, remove and check for deterioration.



As an aside, I've found Earls and Aeroquip to be excellent stuff, but will pass on Russel products.  Mainly due to the poor quality of their braided lines and old style fittings.  They may have changed for the better, but I'm happy with Earls and Aeroquip.

The nylon hydraulic lines use pressed on fittings and reusable fittings like Earls.
They are 45 degree fittings and I have used them mixed with Earls fittings with good results.
Earls makes a fitting cone repair device that is a soft grade of metal that fits over the machined 37 degree nose of the fitting.
It's thin and works well when fitting seats and sealing surfaces have been damaged.
I use these between 37 and 45 degree fittings and have had excellent results.
The repair devices (for want of a better word) work either way.
IE: 37 degree male or 45 degree male fittings into the opposite style fitting.

[C9]

Since I mentioned the oil lines going from the remote oil filter adapter to bulkhead fittings in the frame, here's a pic of the bulhead fittings and the backside of the adapter.

Reason I point this out is the frame on the 32 is 2" wide and 1/8" wall thickness.
That doesn't leave enough room for the 90 degree adapters to roll into the frame holes for the adapters due to the inside of the frame measures 1 3/4".
Maybe a #8 fitting would turn the required 90 degrees, but I prefer #10 stuff in oil supply lines.

The hole in the frame was ovalled out enough so the 90 degree fittings could turn to the correct position and they bolt to an adapter.
The adapter then bolts to drilled and tapped 10-32 holes in the frame.
That allows the inside of the adapter to just clear the inner side of the ouside frame rail.  (Hope that made sense.)

Note that the 37 degree seat #10 Earls braided stainless line connects to the 45 degree seat #10 hydraulic 90 degree bulkhead fitting.
This is where the Earls repair devices are used.

No problems in over 15,000 miles.

Originally the lines shown in the photo were the 3000 psi blue hydraulic lines, but werre replaced with Earls braided stainless.
That was due to the blue lines are stiffer than the stainless ones and ran a slightly different route and at times would contact the back of the tie rod.
The more flexible Earls lines cured this problem.

The local speed shop where I used to live has a tremendous supply of Earls lines hanging on the wall.
Over 30 grand worth.  As you know as the sizes go up so does the cost and some of the comp cars that go together run big, big lines.

At one time I was building an RV6A and got to know some of the experimental aircraft people.
They came into the speed shop to buy Earls fittings for their airplanes because Al, the owner, carried such a terrific selection.

[C9]

Long as I'm on a roll this morning....

Here's a pic of a somewhat different oil filter adapter.
A home-made piece knocked out in my shop because the commercially available BB Buick (455's etc.) adapters have a thin o-ring that looks like it would easily fail.
Especially so since the sealing surface the o-ring seats on, on the timing cover side (Buick oil pumps are external) is fairly narrow.

The inner part - made from aluminum - of the two-piece adapters larger piece is machined with a square groove.
The square groove accepts the rubber gasket from a Fram PH8a filter and makes for a much better gasket seal than the junky and probably poor quality o-ring on the offshore filter adapters that are available for these engines.

The front or outer part of the adapter is made from a good quality alloy steel that machines well.  Not sure what it is, I bought a length of it from a machine shop and save it for special uses.

Anyway, the steel piece has a groove machined in it for a quality USA made o-ring as well as being knurled for hand installation.  No wrenches required for install or removal.
(As you'd expect the steel piece is tapped 3/4-16 I believe - this to match the oil filter threads.  the other end of the center hole is tapped NPT to match the Earls swivel fitting.)
The aluminum inner piece has a through-bore for the steel piece to pass through and a step is cut into the aluminum inner peice to allow the steel piece to seat it's o-ring.
With the steel piece screwed down, the inner aluminum parts oil filter gasket is compressed which seals it there and the o-ring is like-wise compressed.

What makes this filter adapter novel and most useful for tight spaces is that the inner aluminum piece can be installed so the #10/NPT fitting can be oriented anywhere on a 360 degree circle.
The 90 degree #10/NPT fitting on the inner aluminum piece can be seated pointing in any direction.  If things are a little tight, running the pipe tap in just a little further allows the fitting to point where you want without being overly torqued down.
The outer steel piece is the same and the Earls swivel  fitting can be pointed anywhere on a 360 circle.
The swivel fitting allows the steel outer (or hold-down) piece to compress the filter gasket and o-ring to the degree you want.

All of the swiveling bit came in very handy when the blue lines were swapped out for stainless.
That allowed the hoses to run in different directions for better tie rod clearance.

I have to knock out another one of these adapters in the near future and when I do I'll post some dis-assembled pics.
Even so, I think you can see how it works.

[56ngirl]

Long as I'm on a roll this morning....

-snip-

I have to knock out another one of these adapters in the near future and when I do I'll post some dis-assembled pics.
Even so, I think you can see how it works.

Excellent.  Thank you so much for all the pics.  They are almost aircraft but not quite....cool.  I would have never guessed about the repair cuff you use....that is something I have to see if Dad knows about.  

I've only seen real aircraft stamped fittings on a handful of cars; and I always suspected that iether they 'saved' them from disposal or knew somebody that did.

On a side note; this week I turned in my Engineering Licence Application to Transport Canada for both an M1 And an M2 classification....here's to hoping that I might be licenced by Christmas......  :b-d:

[C9]

You're welcome.

Good luck on the licensing.


When I lived in SoCal my buds and I used to hit the aircraft/aluminum salvage places.
There used to be buckets of cast-off (used once far as I know) made up braided lines that came off the rocket engines up on the hill at Rocketdyne.  (Atomics International)
Rocketdyne being up the hill from Chatsworth on one side and Santa Susanna, California on the other side.

Used to be interesting to be up on the hill switching at an electric power substation and hear the big rocket motors fire off.

Anyhoo, once you found where to get the adapter pieces to go from SAE to the rocket fittings you were in business.