Wheel Bearings.."New Design/2nd Gen"

[Arnold]

I have seen these advertised. Anyone have any experience with them? They can't be any worse At least they have the market pretty much saturated with junk now  Thanks

[wayne petty]

check this out..

describes the different design generations. for different uses..


http://www.ntnamericas.com/en/website/documents/brochures-and-literature/catalogs/hub_bearings_4601.pdf


its only 23 pages so its not a massive read..  mostly cutaway pictures... down to the balls in the races..


if you are having repeat failure.... please verify that you have contact between the inner seal and the CV shaft hub... there are toyota and other versions that the bearings ship with the NON ABS seals.. that are TOO BIG for the provided seal surface so every splash gets in and washes out the exposed bearing..

please perform the voltage drop test.. http://imgur.com/a/wHJue

why... because high readings on test 2, 3 and 4.. usually 3 either 4.. could have the Negative circuit passing from the engine to the body thru the transmission. CV shafts.. wheel bearings.. steering knuckles., rack and pinion or strut top bearing ..


improper assembly of pressed in bearings... and pressed in hubs... i worked with a toyota dealer mechanic with 30 years of experience. he still could NOT properly press a bearing in... and the hub into it without destroying the bearing..  

i can explain the why ... and how it should be done..   i don't even like pulling down the CV nut with an impact..

but does everybody need a text wall..

[Arnold]

check this out..

describes the different design generations. for different uses..


http://www.ntnamericas.com/en/website/documents/brochures-and-literature/catalogs/hub_bearings_4601.pdf


its only 23 pages so its not a massive read..  mostly cutaway pictures... down to the balls in the races..


if you are having repeat failure.... please verify that you have contact between the inner seal and the CV shaft hub... there are toyota and other versions that the bearings ship with the NON ABS seals.. that are TOO BIG for the provided seal surface so every splash gets in and washes out the exposed bearing..

please perform the voltage drop test.. http://imgur.com/a/wHJue

why... because high readings on test 2, 3 and 4.. usually 3 either 4.. could have the Negative circuit passing from the engine to the body thru the transmission. CV shafts.. wheel bearings.. steering knuckles., rack and pinion or strut top bearing ..


improper assembly of pressed in bearings... and pressed in hubs... i worked with a toyota dealer mechanic with 30 years of experience. he still could NOT properly press a bearing in... and the hub into it without destroying the bearing..  

i can explain the why ... and how it should be done..   i don't even like pulling down the CV nut with an impact..

but does everybody need a text wall..

   Thanks again Wayne
   I think I was scammed on this :evil: I did a little more looking at places that sold BOTH the "original" and the "newer design"/2nd Gen. They looked the same..CAUSE they WERE the same  :evil:
   From what I know NOW.."original"..(first Gen) were simply the TYPE of pretty much all wheel bearings..then along came 2nd Gen etc.,etc., Actually Iirc these are a 4th or 5th Gen type. (Hub/bearing..)

    I am not aware..maybe did not look that closely? Doubt that considering the # I have done. Does not look like..from memory..that there is any seal/sealing surface of the shaft on the inside of the bearing..of the original or replacements..or different bearing manufacturers. Looks like the bearing is just "sort of" sealed from the inside by a metal part of the assembly.

   From a very smart young girl..service advisor at Canadian Tire: "My dad has 3 of these awd uplanders..the very first sign of the wheel bearings failing is when the abs light comes on..the next for sure sign is when after rain/slush/snow gets blown in there..and packed in and frozen..when the vehicle is parked.and the light goes out..for awhile..until that area..or it gets warm enough to melt..then light back on..(hey I have been there ) that tells us that the back..inside of the wheel bearing is rotted and that stuff is getting in there. From there the light will not go off and the bearing itself will fail. Very common..we see this all the time here on lots of different vehicles"

   That is exactly what happened on the last wheel bearing failure! Light came on..time to look at it..literally about 2 days later..
some of the bearing stayed on the shaft :evil: some shrapnel..some very minor chewing up of the knuckle(ground it out). Tough one to get apart..YAA..did not have to cut the shaft

   Backs of the bearings just rot out.

   Sad to see that there are TONS of "brake kits" that include wheel bearings now.

   Oh..I hear you about not wanting to use a gun to draw them together. You have been there too Sometimes you can get them apart but the splines on the shaft are so rotted you cannot get them back together again :evil:

   I did run into the EXACT same abs seal problem you talked about with Toyota and others..on older Focus wagons with abs.
With rear drums. AND NO abs on the rear. Had the Ford parts guy really shaking his head. I think I ended up having to use the abs hub bearing assembly on a non abs app. because the seal fit properly. Seems to me at the time that in order to do it "properly"..(use a non abs hub/bearing) I would have had to change the stub axles too. These really do not come off.
    Had 3 bad replacement bearings..2 different manufacturers..finally just gave up and put one of the original hub bearing assemblies back on. Tough decision to make..this hub/bearing had been off for YEARS and left OUTSIDE..in the scrap pile. Had like 200k on it. I ONLY changed it because I was changing both hub/bearing/drum assemblies.There was nothing wrong with it at the time. I was angry and frustrated..and oh..it was the weekend and the car was immobile.. and stuck it back on. Lasted for years and probably another 100K!

     Thanks again

[kb426]

Interesting read. There's something to be aware of with most all vehicles maybe depending on the climate of operation.

[wayne petty]

with all these failures.. i would want to think up a Custom V seal shape.. that fits between the CV shaft and the back of the bearing in the hub...


i have not had one of these apart.. so i don't know how much space or clearance there is for anything.  

i would think it would be great to shield it from spray from the other side tire somehow..    might need to pack the seal area with super slick type of grease to reduce friction.. against the back of the Hub and the housing bore..  maybe there's no room.. perhaps it could slip on the CV joint joint body..

must be some way of protecting them from repeat failure and making a few bucks out of it.

this is my corolla wheel bearing diagram

http://i.imgur.com/x4eVxaa.jpg

[idrivejunk]

I am building a fort in my garage, out of the pile of old Grand Prix wheel bearings and their boxes. All I have learned is yellow box yes, grey box no.

[Arnold]

with all these failures.. i would want to think up a Custom V seal shape.. that fits between the CV shaft and the back of the bearing in the hub...


i have not had one of these apart.. so i don't know how much space or clearance there is for anything.  

i would think it would be great to shield it from spray from the other side tire somehow..    might need to pack the seal area with super slick type of grease to reduce friction.. against the back of the Hub and the housing bore..  maybe there's no room.. perhaps it could slip on the CV joint joint body..

must be some way of protecting them from repeat failure and making a few bucks out of it.

this is my corolla wheel bearing diagram

http://i.imgur.com/x4eVxaa.jpg

 Problem is just junk replacement bearings. Originals last from about 120000-180000km up here. Pretty much impossible to buy OEM wheel bearings for ANY vehicle. Ditto for calipers. What one thinks is an OEM replacement bearing..AND pays for :evil: is just another cheap pos. Replacement bearings up here..the lifespan is based on YEARS. Around 1 1/2 years for bearings..the only difference between the $40 internet bearings and the so called "oems"  at $250 is the warranty. Local garage prices bearings at $150-$250.  Warranties are 1-about 2 1/2 years. NO replacement bearings go that far up here :!: Lifetime warranties..been there done that :evil: The FIRST replacement bearing you buy with a lifetime warranty is guaranteed for life. THE LIFE OF THE BEARING :evil: when that one does fail..which it most certainly will..the next bearing..is of course your free "lifetime" replacement. NO warranty on that one.
 Local garage tells customers that all replacement bearings last the same time. Warranty gets you a replacement bearing. NO labour charges are covered..other than for the first few weeks.
 
  The sheer math on junk replacement wheel bearings is just that lots and lots and lots of people buy new cars up here..THOSE bearings on new cars last the 120000-180000km..that is a good 5-10 years. It is pretty much unheard of that anything with over about 220000k has original wheel bearings in it. Buying vehicles up here with over about 160000-180000km..get ready for the wheel bearing bs. Wheel bearing jobs run about $500-$600-$700..PER CORNER. PROVIDING that the shafts and knuckles are good/re-useable. Add into that..rotors/hubs..calipers if necessary while it is apart.
 
   USED to be that is was pretty much just the abs sensors that failed in them..when the abs light comes on..drive it..keep driving it..scan it..ya..bad sensor. YA DO NOT be doin' that no more! Been there done that too. The replacement wheel bearing manufacturers started making the guts of the bearings..junk too. SOooo..abs light on means that the sensor is bad because salt,brine,beet juice got in there and wrecked it..now the junk is getting in there because the back metal covering of the bearing is rotted,,exposing the actual guts to the junk. Abs light on can indeed mean wholesale bearing failure coming to a vehicle near you MAYBE REAL SOON.

    Just a big business boon to garages up here.

     Local garage guy was at a trade show and talking to a mnfr. Saying they should start making a reasonable quality replacement wheel bearing AND backing it with money where mouth is. Good quality bearing..good warranty. COVER THE LABOUR when it packs it in. That should make them produce a good product.

     Not rocket science..the originals last..the replacements don't.

     Rant over (sorry)