This time the other end

[GPster]

Years ago the advise for using S10 frames for frame swaps was to use 2WD frames and substitute the rear ends with ones out of a 4WD for the added width. The fact that the spring pads were in the same place as the 2WD rear ends meant they would bolt right in. The added width was needed on the Jeepster to put the wheels under the fenders so I jumped at the first chance to get one of these rear ends. I found a guy parting out a Blazer so I bought the rear end. Unfortunately, I never found out what year the donor was. The brakes were different than what was on the 2WD rear end and it had ABS where my 2WD did not so I junked my 2WD rear end end and planned to eliminate the ABS and do a brake job on the 4WD rear end and eliminate the ABS later. Now I find myself with a mess I can't identify. The ABS sensors (that I have eliminated)  by pictures on the internet are only identified as from a K3500 when I was looking at pictures of 1991 S10 Blazer rear ABS sensors. They are square boxes with long wire leads attached that bolt along with the brake backing plates to the ends of the axel housing. The brakes are ordinary 9 1/2" x 2" shoes with common  parking brake and self adjuster hardware, springs and clips by the pictures. The drums by S10 Blazer pictures look to be of the '92 or earlier variety. The vehicle this rear end (the parking brake cables were still connected to it) was out of was of the S10 heritage of the early body style but was a 4dr like a mini suburban. I hope it wasn't one of those special police vehicles made with odd parts. What started this search. At the start these brakes looked like the typical 4X4 around here, full of mud and appeared to have been used below water.  I saw that the bolt in brake anchors at the top of the backing plates were worn. Couldn't find replacements available and I don't know anyone building a "Metric" framed dirt track car to get a junk rear end. Dorman sells replacement backing plates with the anchors that are supposed to fit any of these rear ends from '78 to ? but they only show being bolted down with two bolts (only 2 bolt holes). They don't show the third hole necessary for the sensors like mine have or the oval hole for the harness of the sensor to pass through. Talk on the S10 forum is that the ABS sensor on the 4X4s comes from a sensor in the transfer case. I don't know what I have and I've stopped thinking that I can fix things without some help. I stopped thinking about the 700R detent cable waiting for help there. GPster

[58 Yeoman]

Joe, sometimes to clear your head, you have to go to a different part of your project. It might be good to get away from the electrical part of your car. I can't help you on the brake part, as I've never worked on an S10.

On a side note, I ran across this cable setup this morning while on another site. Has anyone used it? It is pricey, but apparently solves all the trans cable adjustment problems.

Good luck with your brakes.

[enjenjo]

you can use this TV cable  http://www.jegs.com/i/TCI/890/376800/10002/-1

You can change it without dropping the trans pan.  http://www.tvmadeez.com/tvcable_instructions/tvcable_install.php


The Dorman backing plate fit on the S10s I have worked on. There are two bolts at the bottom, and the anchor pin holds it at the top

[GPster]

It's nice to have some directions from somebody that has seemed to do these things and knows where to get me pictures about how to do it. I had just pulled the old detent cable from the trans enough to try to see if I could see where the cable end was attached. The seal didn't come with the cable housing but stayed in the trans body so there was not a very big opening in the I.D. of the seal so I didn't think there was any way to do the job. Of course if I had looked at my replacement cable I would have thought I had the wrong part because the seal was packaged on the end of the trans side housing fitting  and it made it too big to fit in that little hole. I already have the cable. You bought it for me at one of your local stores one time we were working on the Crosley. You had suggested that type because it made the job easier. On the rear end question, the part of the housing end that the anchor is bolted to (along with the backing plate) has a third hole in it. My ABS sensor bolted in using this third hole and one of the lower backing plate mounting holes. So I won't worry about eliminating the ABS sensors because the backing plates don't need the third bolt for support. If you've changed enough of these backing plates to know that Dorman has them this must be a common problem.  You'd think somebody would make these anchors. The backing plates still appear usable. Thanks GPster

[GPster]

Just an update without any questions (?). I put the rear brakes together with the best of my selection of used parts but without the self adjusters or parking brake hardware. When I shortened the frame for the Jeepster's wheelbase length ( 4" less ) I had put a new brake line in from the gas tank back and filled the new line with fluid so it wouldn't be trapping air but I hadn't bled it. Got the master cylinder filled back up and got the wheel cylinders bled and the brake shoes touching the drums. My wanting to get brakes on the back end was so I could at least stop everything moving if/when I had the transmission in gear while the engine was running (it does now). I had put the rear axel of the Jeepster up in the air on jackstands so I could at least get the mechanisms and fluids of the transmission and the rear end in motion with them having been dormant for so long. Everything was/is so free that the driveshaft even turns in neutral so I wanted brakes to stop it to go between gears and back to park. I had taken the right front fender of during the "Getting it running" period so that the distributor was in "bi-focal" range. I built a bracket on the fender for the terminal block while I could get it up in the air on my new work bench. I put the fender back on and mounted and wired the terminal block. Turned the key and it started right off. Put it in gear and the brakes would stop things turning so they didn't "CRASH" into gear or into park. Even got the "BRAKE" light on the instrument panel at the start of this and it went out when hit the brake pedal. Feel too good to look for something to worry about right now. GPster

[GPster]

Just an update without any questions (?). I put the rear brakes together with the best of my selection of used parts but without the self adjusters or parking brake hardware. When I shortened the frame for the Jeepster's wheelbase length ( 4" less ) I had put a new brake line in from the gas tank back and filled the new line with fluid so it wouldn't be trapping air but I hadn't bled it. Got the master cylinder filled back up and got the wheel cylinders bled and the brake shoes touching the drums. My wanting to get brakes on the back end was so I could at least stop everything moving if/when I had the transmission in gear while the engine was running (it does now). I had put the rear axel of the Jeepster up in the air on jackstands so I could at least get the mechanisms and fluids of the transmission and the rear end in motion with them having been dormant for so long. Everything was/is so free that the driveshaft even turns in neutral so I wanted brakes to stop it to go between gears and back to park. I had taken the right front fender off during the "Getting it running" period so that the distributor was in "bi-focal" range. I built a bracket on the fender for the terminal block while I could get it up in the air on my new work bench. I put the fender back on and mounted and wired the terminal block. Turned the key and it started right off. Put it in gear and the brakes would stop things turning so they didn't "CRASH" into gear or into park. Even got the "BRAKE" light on the instrument panel at the start of this and it went out when hit the brake pedal. Feel too good to look for something to worry about right now. GPster

[58 Yeoman]

I bought a couple pair of reading glasses that I keep around, so if I'm working on something in that range, it's easier than craning my neck trying to see things. They work especially well under dashes, etc.

[GPster]

I bought a couple pair of reading glasses that I keep around, so if I'm working on something in that range, it's easier than craning my neck trying to see things. They work especially well under dashes, etc.

I'l have to try that sometime but my eye problems are more than just old age (but that's part of the problem). My accident years ago cracked my skull and damaged some of the nerves in my head. Both eyes work but my left eye doesn't move or the eye lid close. My glasses don't correct the vision in my left eye so my brain eliminates the weaker image. Otherwise I'd have double vision. Using the vision from only one eye messes up my depth perception so not only do I have to be close to see things I need to be close enough to touch them to know where they are. With my mind registering two images and canceling one of them straining to see is very tiring. That plus the brain injury doesn't let me concentrate on anything very long. All of thet plus I have a "FAT" head (7 5/8 hat size) so it's kind of hard to get "dime store" reading glasses that don't give me a head ache. I'm not complaining but I don't want anyone to think I ignore their suggestions. GPster

[GPster]

It' still my namesake (or I'm it's). Jacked the front end up and put it on jackstands the other day. Now it's up in the air all the way around. Drained the oil the other day and was pleasantly surprise. It was dirty but it was only oil, no sludge, water, or antifreeze. Gave it a new oil filter and started it up and let it run for awhile. Started right up and I didn't even check for codes. I think next in line for me is trans fluid and filter, the new detent cable and run lines for a an ATF cooler. It's just got a loop in the line at the trans now. The main reason for putting it up in the air is to get all my body mounts in-place so I can fabricate a floor for the body. Because it's a convertible (actually a phaeton) the thing will "sway-back" with the doors open so it will need a substantial transmission tunnel and door jams. With three freezing nights in a row the heater in my garage has been running. I'm going to have to seal the garage door closed for the coming season so it probably won't be opened until spring. It runs, the transmission turns the driveshaft and the back brakes stop the wheels from turning. Nothing is 100% but maybe it can crawl into the sun uner it's own power come spring. GPster

[wayne petty]

is there an ID tag on the rear housing cover bolt.. or perhaps a stamped number on the housing axle tube or down in the webbing ...

if you posted that info i have a interchange manual section i might be able to tell you exactly what it is..

if you post pictures....  


i know as do you that some GMs of some years..  use snap ring retained wheel cylinders..  almost all are 3/4" bore.. except for 1986 S10 blazers that were 13/16 that some G body racers use when they use full size front calipers instead of the slightly smaller G Body calipers.. keeping the brake bias closer to normal.

[GPster]

Wayne, after spending days trying to identify the problem and deciding that the longer I thought about it the worse I made it I plan to simplify it. The whole question would have been avoided if I had remembered when I first got the rear end I had decided not to worry about the ABS. With Dorman having the backing plates and them covering so many years it will be easier to just buy new than worrying about looking for the anchor bolts separately. With the way the worst wheel cylinder was loose it is going to be easier to just replace the wheel cylinders and Dorman has them too so I imagine their parts will fit together. I'll Wagner the shoes and my drums will live. While I was examining the rear end at it's purchase I noticed that the parking brake cables were shot. The donor S15's cables were shot also. With all of their cables being different lengths,even side to side I have already bought new cables to simplify that problem and I think I will eliminate the self-adjusters. With the Jeepster "up in the air" (literately) I may go back to the brakes before spring. I guess the question that will come up at that time is if it is the type of rear end tha has the "C" clips on the axles in the center section so I can pull the axles to change the backing plates?  GPster

[wayne petty]

its a C clip rear end..  please save yourself grief later.. use a wire brush and compressed air to clean off the top of the housing and the gap around the top of the rear cover..  so dirt does not fall down into the gear lube and screw your rear end months or years from know... also invest in a 5 or 10 way Hyde brand painters tool and a diamond file or something to sharpen it to a razor edge to scrape the gaskets.. do not use spinning air tools to do that.. you will spread abrasives into the oil and kill the rear end bearings later..  be sure to place at least one quarter size super magnet inside the housing but off to the side to gather metal sediment.. i usually stack several..  expect to find grooved axles..  if not bad you can get axle saver bearings.. you will need axle bearing pullers to save hours..

http://www.harborfreight.com/rear-axle-bearing-puller-set-66380.html

you will also need at least a 5 pound 5/8-18 slide hammer set up to work with them... takes pulling axle bearings and seals out of housing seconds verses hours ..  some stores rent them..

click to see axle wear image you might have. http://i.imgur.com/h3c4AJK.jpg

be sure that when you drop the new wheel cylinders in that you brace them against the inside of the axle flange.. i usually use a wooden wedge.. and the snap ring is installed with sometimes a 12. point socket.. if you the right size..  but be sure that the 2 fingers actually latch into the notches in the side of the wheel cylinder grooves.  or it will pop out..

removing the self adjusters is harder than you think.. they are part of the springs and wire links...

H7104 is probably the main spring kit with a H2622 for the left  and an H2623 for the right side self adjuster kit..  these kits fit decades of 9.5" rear GM brakes..

i actually have a brake components picture catalog.. if you listed the length of the parking cable casings you need and the length of the parking brake cable cores.. i might be able to figure out something but you already have some of it..

[GPster]

The rear end I have must be a '91 or earlier. From what I can see the wheel cylinder in blazers (among other uses)  after that used wheel cylinders that bolted in. As far as eliminating the self adjusters the difference that I see is the difference in the springs. I had purchased hardware kits for this in the past plus the hardware from the original brakes plus the hardware from the donor pick-up's rear end gave me sufficient springs. I've already got working brakes with used shoes, questionable backing plates with anchors and the old wheel cylinders so the new parts will be installed at parking brake time. The most frustrating parts of this change is the adjuster has a surface suited to the self adjuster's lever more than an "Old Style" adjuster tool. Speaking of parking brake cables. I think what I did was got two of the driver's side cables out of the rear end. To shorten the S15 wheelbase for this project (4") I just re-mounted the rear springs forward on the frame and shortened the frame in the hump over the rear end. That brought the upper shock mounts and the spring shackles in the correct working position with the springs. It also would have messed up the stock parking brake cable positions. So the cables I have are just to get out of the rear brakes. I'll probably go with a center mounted handle and the old style "V"  cable arrangement. Well cold weather is here and now I'll have more time to work in my garage at my new work bench which  close to the heater. Unfortunately the Jeepster is closer to he door. GPster