High Torque starter

timkins · August 19, 2016, 01:53:52 PM

I have a high torque mini starter in my Chevy(350) powered street rod. Lately it has started to just click several times prior to starting. So I ordered a new high torque starter thinking there may be a flat spot in the old starter and installed it today. I have a hidden switch to turn the power off when not in use. After I installed the new starter today, I cleaned all of the connections from the battery to the hidden switch to the starter. When I tried to start the car with the new starter in it just clicked and then started. There was a slight delay between the time when I turned the key to the clicking to starting. The column in the car is a mid 80's Chevy tilt with the key in the column. What am I missing?

58 Yeoman · August 19, 2016, 03:11:34 PM

I was going to say corroded battery terminals, as that is what my lawn tractor does when they are corroded, but you said you already cleaned them.

timkins · August 19, 2016, 03:37:20 PM

the only thing I have not cleaned is the ground cables and their attaching points. That is tomorrows job.

Fat Cat · August 19, 2016, 04:37:53 PM

Are you sure the contacts in the disconnect switch are still good?

wayne petty · August 19, 2016, 05:07:18 PM

a few things. if you can.. perform the voltage drop test..

engine running.. headlights on. hand held digital volt meter set to 20 VDC

test 1. positive to negative battery.. 14.1 to 14.8 volts is expected.. over 12.8 volts indicates the alternator is at least putting out some current..

test 2. and this is important... Negative battery post to the engine block.. 0.04 volts DC max.. you may need to change to 2 volt DC setting.. if you get 0.00 at 20 volts setting.. that is 4/100ths of a volt.. this checks the electrical connection between the negative post and the engine block..

test 3. negative battery post to the body.. 0.02 volts or 2/100ths of a volt..

test 4.. engine block to firewall.. 0.02 volts DC max

test 5.. gets harder.. on 1995 and newed.. i do this positive battery post to to multiple fuses in the underhood fuse block.. 0.04 volts DC max..

test 6.. positive battery to the alternator output stud.. this might be as high as 0.3 volts.. mopars from the 0s and 70s might be 0.7 volts because of the length of the charging system to the battery..

there is a chance.. you might need to take off the mini starter.. take out the 3 small screws holding the solenoid cover off.. examining the contact disc on the plunger... examining the L shaped contacts in the sides of the solenoid case... replacements are available.. after years of use... one contact will have worn down.. when there is enough differental in height. the contact disc cannot flex far enough to bridge the 2 L shaped contacts.. so you get a click click click..

this happens with nippondenso style PMGR starters...

HELP has replacement contact kits..
http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-1049-02349.aspx

you can also install a LOAD dropping relay... i can describe how to do that..

you can also do a voltage drop test on the solenoid control circuit..

take a 5 or 6 foot long piece of 14 or 16 gauge wire.. tie a loop knot about 6 inches from one end.. the other end.. you will want to create a Y or T shaped pair of wires.. one male .250 and one female .250.. so you can go down to the starter.. unplug the solenoid push on connector.. plug this test wire between the old wire and the solenoid..

now do a voltage drop test to the positive battery.. i would probably use a test light first.. or touch thee end of that wire directly to the positive terminal see if the starter engages properly.. or still clicks..

the test light will normally light up in this configuration.. when you engage the starter.. or turn the key.. the test light should go out.. if it does not go out.. then you probably have some resistance somewhere in the circuit.. between the battery positive and the ignition switch or the inition switch and the solenoid connector.. you can narrow it down sometimes

hope this helps..

timkins · August 20, 2016, 09:51:05 AM

went down this morning and checked the voltage but did not check the continuity.Voltage was good. I then cleaned the grounding points at the frame and the motor and installed another ground from the frame to the bolt on the starter. We will see what happens now. One of the side effects of cleaning the ground attachment points are my interior lights are brighter and the voltage gauge now reads higher. The grounds must have been contributing to the problem. Thanks to all for the replies and suggestions.

wayne petty · August 20, 2016, 10:04:18 AM

ahh.. my computers working again..

everybody bookmark this.. then print this page... http://i.imgur.com/WMDprhm.jpg

sounds like you have it handled..

this printed voltage drop test only takes a minute to perform the first 4 steps..

timkins · September 18, 2016, 11:49:43 AM

went down to start the car Friday and the same thing happened. Hit the key and all it does is click, tried several more times same result. Turned the key off and tried again and the car started. As I did not use the new high torque starter I had purchased I decided to install it. Same result it just clicked and acted like a dead battery. Reinstalled the old starter and the car started fine. Bench tested the new starter and it spins freely NO clicking. The only thing I have not tested is the remote main power on/off switch mounted in the floor.
What am I missing?

wayne petty · September 18, 2016, 06:16:49 PM

voltage drop tests..

run a test wire... 16 gauge with a female bullet connector on one end and a ring terminal on the other... put it on the starter top post..

if your starter uses a ring terminal for the S terminal.. make another 16 gauge wire for that.. with a female bullet connector and a ring terminal..

if your starter uses a push on female terminal.. create a T shaped wire.. with a male and female on some creative crimping.. and a female bullet connector at the long end..

install these.

perform the voltage drop test on them while trying to start the car..

volt meter set to 20 V DC.. use one volt meter test lead to the positive battery post.. one test lead into the female bullet connector on the big post wire first.. when it clicks.. how much voltage are you reading.. less than 0.9 volts would be good..

do the same test to the wire to the S terminal.. do you get less than 0.9 volts while cranking or clicking..

you may want to create a third test terminal and put it on a fastener into the starter housing.. where the solenoid is bolted to the starter noise. or even under the starter mounting bolt. that test goes from the starter housing via the wire to the negative battery post..

somewhere you are loosing enough voltage thru a voltage drop/resistance in the circuit/ kink in the garden hose..

i have measured with an amp meter almost 50 amps to pull a starter solenoid in..

http://imgur.com/a/GJqBg

read what i typed below the image linked..

timkins · September 18, 2016, 06:42:43 PM

Thanks Wayne. Going to take me a little while to accumulate and get ready to do the tests.

2buck · October 17, 2016, 09:01:35 PM

I had similar issues a few years ago. My car had aprox. 30K miles. I added additional ground cables & had my starter checked & rechecked. Sometimes I would not even get a click. This problem occurred after the car had been driven for an hour or more.
I replaced my ignition switch & 90% of my problems went away. When I removed the switch I could see one terminal was brown from being hot from too much internal resistance inside the switch. My ignition switch was from a mid 70 Ford pickup truck but I have heard others had also experienced this problem.