lengthening a t bucket frame

[butch27]

Thinking about cutting my 2x4 1/8" wall frame by just sawzall the frame and moving the whole rear section axles and shocks everything back 6" Any ideas of how to reinforce the cut area that will be 6" longer and rejoing the frame sections so there will be no chance of it breakin there?  Thanks Butch

[kb426]

What method of welding will you use?

[enjenjo]

You can install 1/8" internal sleeves in the tubing. About 4" long, and the height and width of the inside of the tubing. Drill a couple 5/8" holes about 1" back from the end of the tube on each side, and one at the top and bottom. Plug weld the sleeves through the holes, leaving about an 1/8" gap where the tubes join, chamfering the edges. Then weld the tube ends together. You can grind it flush, and still have plenty of strength.

[moose]

^^^^^^^ What he said is spot on ^^^^^

[idrivejunk]

Yep, thats the way. Just cut some new 2x4 tubing along two corners and trim the pieces (thats how I would do it) so you have two L shaped sleeve halves to plug weld inside the existing rail.

Something to keep in mind... keep this sleeved joint in an area where the frame is not intended to absorb collision energy, ahead of suspension mounting points. Because it will be WAY stronger at your sleeved area and won't crush / bend like the rest of the frame.

Coating the inside of the rail after this would insure that it never weakens from the inside from corrosion. The sectioning does create a rust hotspot.

[butch27]

Cool" That's the way I was thinking. BUT really hate splicing anything. It will work!!!!  Cutting right behind the door area.

[wayne petty]

since you are extending the frame.. i am taking that you will be not only cutting down sections like IDJ mentioned to slip inside. but you will have a sleeve. of the same material to butt weld..

you could also if you have additional splice material. weld the L shapes properly so they fit in the new sleeve really tightly. making them back into a solid rectangular tube again..  so a 6" extension will have a 6 inch original size sleeve...  and an 18" double L shape that is rewelded before you slip the 6 inch piece over it.. this makes it a cut the frame.. separate and slip the pre assembled extensions in.. and slide together.  you could even predrill the weld thru holes before you cut.. as long as the cut you make it totally straight and square on both sides of the tube..

[butch27]

Will be MIG  welding it.

[butch27]

Wayne : I think I know what you're saying and it makes sense  BUT I'm not positive of it.  Got a drawing??

[wayne petty]

http://i.imgur.com/GnEp3EB.jpg


there are steel suppliers that actually have some sizes that nest tightly..

i think you will need if you want to extend the frame rail by 6" on each side..

4' of tubing...   TWO 18" lengths.. TWO 6" lengths..   you may want two more 2 inch pieces.. to make welding clamps..


with your angle grinder.. or even better your circle saw.. with a steel cut off blade in it..  slze thru 2 corners at 45 degrees..   or what ever it takes to shrink it so 2 pieces can slide all the way thru the 6 inch piece tightly..


cut  thru a narrow edge of the 2 inch long sections after  you have welded a coupling nut across the narrow side. cut thru the coupling nut also.. this gives you a clamp tool to hold the pieces square while welding when you insert a smaller diameter nut and bolt thru the now 2 sections of coupling nut.. or drill the threads out of one side only but then you end up with a hits the hex on the tube issue.

does this make any sense..  its IDJs idea i just snatched and ran with it..

this allows you to make all these extension pieces  weld them up.. then cut the frame and insert the new pieces..  you are now ready to use a pair of come alongs.. or more coupling nuts  temporarally welded to the frame with all thread pinching the extended frame onto the new section.. do one up high and the other low so you can change the tension to keep it level across your new joint..

i would probably coat the new 18 inch pieces and the inside of the 6 inch pieces with weld thru primer.. or what ever somebody suggests..

[butch27]

NOTE:  This will be done with the engine/trans and rear end in the frame already.  Any problems for seen?

[idrivejunk]

Wayne nice elaboration and explanatory image, man.

Butch, with "mechanicals in" (bodyshop term for that), maintaining proper dimensions during the stretch may be more challenging but should not interfere if the chassis is adequately supported.

Since I don't know what you're working on exactly (like is this frame fully boxed or is it a 2x4" C shape at the area in question. Assuming its square tube.), nor it's purpose, I'll spare you from a wave of questions and tips.

The method illustrated by Wayne won't break but may also lean toward overkill depending on the intended usage and the condition of the existing rails.

I'll also make a sketch outlining the steps in this method possibly with some variations. Stand by on that. Enjenjo gave you the reader's digest version but all of us are on the same page. Like so many things in body work, a dozen men might do it that many different ways with nobody really being wrong. Your primary challenge in my opinion is keeping the frame straight.

I would suggest confirming that the existing frame is straight before beginning. I can tell you how I would do that if you are  not quite comfortable with that aspect of the job.

[butch27]

Thanks --all info is appreciated, the frame is box 2x4 -1/8" wall. and dead straight.

[idrivejunk]

If you know its dead straight and have means to keep it that way, then this drawing should explain one alternative that could possibly have a flexibility advantage for you if you have the room for it. Because the strong tree bends but stays standing in the wind, and you're splicing right out in the middle. Six one way, half a dozen the other maybe. You pick. I may have missed a weld or hole mark somewhere but a pic is worth a thousand words.

This shows a sleeve made of quartered tubing with staggered halves in a slanted rail cut, all stitched or butted together after clamping inside the new section and tacking the sleeve quarters together. It would be coated (the welded and prepared sleeve / section assembly, that is) then inserted, plugged, and seam welded and all ground just flat or close to it. Of course the rail seams need proper chamfering and gap. I would definitely bolt or screw it all together through plug weld holes before welding and measure often.

EDIT: Ha ha yeah my drawing only has one half of the sleeve shown in the side view. "Sketching" is harder than imagining.