4180 holley help please

[chimp koose]

How many turns for idle mixture adjustment?I tried the 1 1/2 that works with most holleys but it isnt working well. This carb is SO different from other holleys. If I get a basic idle mixture adjustment I will leave it at that,the screws are hard to get at a real pita.

[wayne petty]

start with this article...

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/mump_0907_how_to_understand_the_holley_4180/viewall.html


i am hoping that you had a sealed plate and just cleaned it without adjusting.. making sure that the passages were open..

or that you counted out how many fractions of a turn each screw was....

for those who don't know... the 4180 has a 4 square idle circuit...  both primary and secondary have idle mixture screws. ... but not in the metering block... but in the base plate...

and it takes a special tool... with an allen tip on it to get at it... its almost impossible to get the left front one in .. as its at an odd angle and kinda hidden by the accelerator pump cover..

all 3 of the 4180s i have floating around were previously tampered with..  so i was never able to get a proper count.. i am also using it on a 460..

let me see if i can dig around and find anything on the idle mixture adjustments...


i always use 2 adjusting tools.. and a vacuum gauge when adjusting..   starting with the primary...  then checking the secondary...  the secondary is almost always just barely open.. 3/4 to 1 1/4 turns at least on my 460...

it does help to put a KINK in the cable on one of the adjusting cables... so you can get it up in the one behind the accelerator pump...

you might want to put a small piece of tape over the spot where you have the tool.. so you don't have to fish...

it gets hard to do the idle on my van.. as the heat off the radiator tries to burn the skin off the underside of my arms..


i bet you have seen the article now that i think about it.. sorry ..

this is limited and almost worthless.. in what you need...

still searching..

http://www.autozone.com:80/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c1528004b9f7

[wayne petty]

this is the 4180 factory training manual...

i don't have a copy of this to know if it will help..

http://www.carbkitsource.com/manuals/carbmanuals/CM304.html

http://www.carburetormanuals.com/products/carbmanuals/CM198.html


the lower link might have more info...

[chimp koose]

Thanks Wayne,I had seen those articles before . I do not have the proper tool for adjusting the idle screws while on the car and was wondering if there was a good rough setting that I could do with the carb off that would get it to run decent. I have read posts on the mustang forum but some of the advice seems to be coming from people who do not have much understanding of carbs in general.I found a chart this summer that told of the base setting but I cant find it anymore.I may just buy a 600 holley reman of the style I am used to . I have a boatload of parts for them and I already have more $ into this truck than it is worth.

[wayne petty]

sorry.. i should have included the proper tools in the post..
these are available at most autozones.. i don't know what you have for parts stores.. search for carb tools. on most parts web sites..
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/grn/25062/image/4/


OEM/Carburetor adjusting tool
Price: $14.99 USD
Part Number: 25062

Features & Benefits

OEM automotive specialty tools are designed to perform day after day in any environment. Our engineers design tools that maximize both performance and budget. OEM tools out-perform the competition time after time.
11-1/2 In. flexible shaft easily reaches into confined areas
Includes 5 quick change adapter tips for multiple applications
Convenient adapter tip storage located in handle and plastic boot
Sizes:
double D,
1/4 In. hex,
3/32 In. hex,
2.5 mm hex,
4.5 mm hex
Part Number:   25062
Weight:   0.35 lbs
Bits/Sockets Included:    Double D, 1/4" hex, 3/32" hex, 2.5mm hex, 4.5mm hex
Case Included:    No
Flexible Shaft Length:    11.5
Handle Material:    Plastic
Overall Length (in):    15.5
Package Contents:    1 Flexible Shaft, 5 Quick Change Adaptor Tips

this could be a BUILD Your own tool...

got any speedometer cable core???

got some small tubing.. copper or steel??

got a 3/16 allen...

i seem to recall that you teach machine shop... cut some allen.. stick it in the end of the small tubing.. stick some speedo cable core in... crimp... epoxy.. solder... mash... attach... creative is the word...   you now have a carb adjustment tool...  as long as run out is kept to a bare minimum... you will be able to do it..    if you are really creative..  you will want perhaps to create with a HVAC Tubing swedge tool.. some expanded end on a tube with a bend ... so you can get it in under the front of the carb... one for the drivers side. one for the passenger side...

swaging tool for copper tubing.. there are also short ones..
http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00977210000?hei=500&wid=500&op_sharpen=1

do the same thing on the other end of the cable core section...  

i HAD... and i know where i lost it..  a snap on carb adjusting tool... it was about 15 inches long.. took 1/4" sockets on one end.. had a knob on the other.. a 35 to 40 degree bend about 2 inches from the end... was able to get under the front of most carbs...

as for adjusting.. you really need to do it on the engine... with it idling...  and a vacuum gauge hooked up...

start on the primaries..
back them out till you reach the highest vacuum.. turn it in till it starts to drop... go back to that point where it starts to drop...   go to the other primary... do the same.. highest vacuum... then turn it in until it starts to drop.. take it back to the point where it starts to drop....

check the first side again...  then do the REARS...    then the fronts again...  you might want to turn them all in 1/8 to 1/4 turn...


this idle mixture adjustment is going to take you about 20 minutes or so...   depending on the airflow.. you might want some hot sleeves...  the HF stores are always out when i visit... so i don't know how good they are at protecting from the massive heat blast...

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-inch-split-leather-sleeves-40206.html

also.. don't even think about NOT hooking up the bowl vents.. the bolt vent solenoids... the purge hoses to and valves to the purge and bowl vent hoses...  if you block the bowl vents.. you WILL not be happy.. the engine will NOT run..

these carbs are much more advanced than a standard 3150/3160.. which have their roots in the  original 3310 app.. a 57/58 430MEL motor.. 74 degree decks  (MEL.. mercury, edsel, lincoln. )  verses... 390 FE... ford edsel  90 degree decks..

out on the boards.. there have been some people very happy with the summit private label version of the holley that no body liked... 2010 and 2011 i think were the models..  this is a direct grandchild of the motorcraft 2100,4100 but with a holley style secondary vacuum advance instead of the big diaphragm on the back and the rocking lever..   the trick is.. summit offers idle feed restrictions and  accelerator pump discharge restrictors.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-M08600VS/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-M08041/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-M08040/

all done without pulling draining the float bowls..

[chimp koose]

I have a quickfuel 600 avenger carb ordered to be here tomorrow. It cost me $97 more than I have invested in gaskets for the ford holley.Should have done it this way from the start. I was warned about these carbs but thought I knew better.

[wayne petty]

i know the 4180 has been replaced...  but i found some images...
in the image below... look carefully at the lower left circle..

note that the idle circuit is split at the mixture needle..  above it is the idle transfer slot..  below it is the idle feed passage..

the 4180 only moves the location of the idle mixture needle to the baseplate.. making it much more tamperproof.. hah.. like that will stop us from tweaking the screws..

when your foot is completely off the throttle.. and the carb is NOT on the fast idle cam..   most of the fuel should be coming through the round idle feed hole below the throttle blades...

when you tip in.. the idle transition slot is now exposed to vacuum..  along with the idle feed port..  this keeps the air fuel mixture from going lean as there is not enough airflow to pull fuel up and over the booster venturi's where the carb will operate on the main circuits..

if you have a smaller engine.. you may actually need to add some thin wire to reduce the area of the idle feed restrictions. if you have a larger motor.. and it tends to go lean and have a flat spot off idle...

but wait... if you get horrible fuel economy... you could have the idle speed setting too far open..  if the primary throttle plates are much above the bottom end of the transition slot.. you will be pulling excess fuel that no main jet changes can fix... only messing with the idle air bleed.. and the idle feed restriction..

i hope this explains more of the secret passages in holley style carbs..

[wayne petty]

a few more images..


this shows mostly the secondary idle and idle transition circuit on a 4 square idle carb...

[wayne petty]

seems the 4180 on my van had sprung a leak... along with a broken motor mount.. broken shifter bowl..  while the carb is apart i snapped some images.

i also know that the 4180 has been replaced...

i just though i needed to describe the slight differences



yes... there are 4 idle circuit air bleeds..

2 outside the air horn..
2 inside the air horn..

the inner two air bleeds inside the air horn are main circuit air bleeds..

[wayne petty]

this is an update to my carb overhaul..

seems that fixing my carb carefully.. instead of RUSHING it like i usually have to do has cured my speedy gas gauge...

i seem to be able to go a very long distance on 20 bucks worth of fuel now..  i keep looking at the gas gauge... thinking.. do i need to drop another 20 bucks...  nope not yet..   i have not figured out the fuel economy yet.. as i have not needed to take any trips that involve filling the tank... thats about 80 or 90 bucks.. and i only use one of the 2..  

just thought i would let the other 4180 owners know..

a lot of people really hate these carbs for some reason..

probably because if you don't get the air bleeds cleaned.. its going to be an issue..

blockages sure will make it hard to adjust the idle mixture..

i actually found that 3 of the 4 idle mixture screws were set a 1.5 turns out.. so i cleaned them and set them all right there.. and have NOT touched them