Saginaw 700 front steer box

[Bob K]

The Camaro clip on my 47 Chevy has a Saginaw box, it is a front steer clip and it is worn out. I have adjusted it until it can't be adjusted anymore

Does anyone repop these?

Is there another box that I could use instead of this to quicken up the steering a bit?

Does anyone make a kit to put a Power Rack & Pinion system on this sub frame?

I know I can buy a kit and rebuild this box but I am looking for some other alternatives.

Anybody?

B B

[enjenjo]

For all practical purposes GM has only made a couple power boxes since 1965, the 800 series, and the 600 series. You Camaro box will be a 805.  This was used on most GM rear drive cars until the end of production. And several other makes too, including some Fords, Mopars, and Jeeps. The same box is used on front steer, or rear steer. The position of the pitman arm is changed to reverse it. Pointed back for front steer, and forward for rear steer. There is two versions, a long travel box, and a short travel box. A short travel box has longer internal stops to limit the travel of the piston in the box. The front steer Camaro used the short travel box. This box was also used in the A, B and G body, and the S trucks. until the late 90s. So any of these will work.

The ratios available are 20 to 1,16 to 1, 14 to 1, and 12 to 1. Your Camaro front end, unless it was a Z car, probably has a 16 to 1 box. So a 12 to 1 box will fit, and be faster, as the 14 to 1 box was not common. The 12 to 1 short travel box can be found in Iroc Camaros, GP SJ, SS Montes, SS Impalas, and some Firebirds. You can also find a 12 to 1 box in Jeep Cherokees from the 90s, with an AX code on the box, but it's a long travel box.

Unfortunately, the code marks on the box are inked on, and very often are no longer visible. So how do you tell what you have? If you turn a long travel box from lock to lock, it will angle about 45 degrees from the center on each side. A short travel box will angle about 38 degrees to each side. So we now know it's a short travel box. Turn again from lock to lock, if it's just over three turns of the steering shaft, it's a 16 to 1, if it's about 2 3/4 turns, it's a 12 to 1 box.

You can install a long travel box where a short travel box was, but the tires may rub on the inside when turned all the way on turns. If you use a short travel box where a long travel should be the turn radius will be increased dramatically.

One other thing, in 70 and 71, Non Z Camaros used a shorter pitman arm, and a straight drag link, while the Z cars used a longer pitman arm and a bent drag link to give a bit faster steering. 72 and on all used the bent drag link and the long pitman arm, and the Z cars had the 12 to one box. The 12 to 1 box was also used on the Firebird TAs.

[enjenjo]

Bob, there are several companies that reman these boxes if you want to go that way, and you can buy a new one from Flaming river.

[phat rat]

I bought a box from these guys for the cpe a couple of years ago

http://www.classicperform.com/

[wayne petty]

a few articles..

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0901_gm_steering_box_upgrade/viewall.html


http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/drivetrain/129_0801_saginaw_steering_box_rebuild/viewall.html

the lower shaft bore usually wears and that requires a jig or some very creative machining to open the bore for the installation of  caged needle bearings or a bushing..

if you have a front steer camaro subframe... you are talking about 70 1/2 to 81.. camaro.. firebird.. 76 to 79 cad seville..

almost every parts store you find will probably have that exact steering box in stock..

do you know the year of your subframe?

[Bob K]

a few articles..

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0901_gm_steering_box_upgrade/viewall.html


http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/drivetrain/129_0801_saginaw_steering_box_rebuild/viewall.html

the lower shaft bore usually wears and that requires a jig or some very creative machining to open the bore for the installation of  caged needle bearings or a bushing..

if you have a front steer camaro subframe... you are talking about 70 1/2 to 81.. camaro.. firebird.. 76 to 79 cad seville..

almost every parts store you find will probably have that exact steering box in stock..

do you know the year of your subframe?

Thanks Frank & Wayne for all of that info. I only know that the sub was off of a 70 1/2 to 81 Camaro and the box has been adjusted so much that it can't be done anymore.

I had contacted Steeroids as they used my 62 as a mule to design a bolt on kit for power R&P for C1 Vette's. I wanted to do the same thing with this car but alas, they don't make a kit. That is what prompted me to ask about a new box.

I put basically the same question up the HAMB and got a few replies, one of them being from a guy at Flaming River informing me that they in fact do make a Power Rack & Pinion bolt in kit for that front steer sub frame. I have to check the number of splines on the chevy van steering column that I am going to use and will order the R&P from them.

I am exctatic with the one in my 62 and want the same feel for the 47.

One question remains though. He is suggesting a 16:1 ratio with a 15 inch steering wheel, does this seem to be too quick. I don't want it to have that go carty feel. What do you guys think?

B B

[jaybee]

Are pitman arm shafts interchangeable between 600 and 800 boxes, even if it takes a little modification?

[enjenjo]

16 to 1 will be fine. It's pretty much what most new sedans use.

[wayne petty]

how many turns lock to lock do you get when you turn the steering wheel

Cardone Remanufactured - Power Steering Gear
2-1/2 To 3 Turns Lock To Lock
Part # : 27-6509   |  Line: A1


Cardone Remanufactured - Power Steering Gear
3-3/4 To 4-1/4 Turns Lock To Lock
Part # : 27-6537   |  Line: A1

these fit 70 1/2 through 74 camaros..   perhaps even later..  

somebody will know the input spline counts between the different version from 70 1/2 and 81 .. since you don't know your exact subframe year..

[enjenjo]

Are pitman arm shafts interchangeable between 600 and 800 boxes, even if it takes a little modification?

No, the shaft size is different.

[wayne petty]

from page 33 of this catalog section... One might really want to print page 33 on glossy paper and staple it to the wall of the shop.. or even stick it in a frame from the 99 cent store..

i wish it included the hose fitting info like i got from the power steering catalog..

http://www.borgeson.com/Images/09Catalog.pdf

GM Power Box
Model 605 ('78–84) 3/4"-30 .728 30
Model 700 ('77 & earlier)13/16"-36 .820 36
Model 700 ('78 & later)3/4"-30 .728 30


this is cobbled together from  an old edelman power steering catalog..

70-76   13/16" input shaft.  
7/16 inverted flair pressure port..
3/8 inverted flair return port

77-79  3/4"  input shaft    
7/16 inverted flair pressure port..
3/8 inverted flair return port.

80-81 through 92    3/4" input shaft...  
metric fittings  18MM male O ring pressure port..  
return port???

so it looks like if you have a 13/16" input shaft.. you have a larger spline pitman shaft...

if you have a 3/4" input shaft you have the smaller pitman shaft..

there also seem to be some differences in some of the newer boxes that use different size mounting bolts...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

now to totally confuse the issue...

manual GM boxes..  input spline/ pitman spline

GM Manual Box Corvair 5/8"-36 .625 36
Vega (model 140) 5/8"-36 .625 36
Corvette ('63–67) 3/4"-36 .728 30
Corvette ('68–83) 3/4"-30 .735 36
('58–64) 3/4"-36 .735 36
Model 122 ('65–85) 3/4"-30 or 3/4"-36 .730 30 or 36
Model 525 ('86 & later) 3/4"-30 .728 30

again this is from page 33 ..

i still don't know what the metric size is on the return line O ring tube threads..

i hope this helps...

[enjenjo]

The input shaft sizes sound right. The pitman shaft size did not change, it was metric to begin with. I have never had a problem switching pitman arms from early to late boxes. The 605 box that was used through the 80s on the intermediate cars on v6 and 4 cylinder applications has a smaller Pitman shaft, it's the same size as the Pitman shaft on a 122 box. On the fitting on the box. I believe the return is 16mm1.5. male O ring. I do know it's close enough that with an inverted flare adapter for the O ring, a 3/8" inverted flare fitting will screw in and seal. I have also made a 3/8" flare to 3/8" O ring adapter, and a modified 10 mm O ring nut  to use an inverted flare line on the Metric pressure port.  there are some adapter on this page  http://www.coldhose.com/cat/flare-adapters-22.php  the part I use is Steel F121 . Having a lathe, I make oddball adapters too. I hate to stack fittings.

The mounting bolt pattern on all these boxes except the 122 are the same, so a lot of interchange is possible.

The 605 power box can be identified by the snap right holding the cover for the Pitman shaft, rather than the 4 bolts on an 805 box.