Remote oil filter

[OldSub]

I have two questions about remote mount oil filters.  
 
Both relate to putting a Cadillac 500 and TH400 into a '54 GMC 1-ton.  
 
First, putting the motor where I want it the oil filter will interfere with the front crossmember.  I would prefer not to cut the crossmember and the remote oil filter seems the best option.  
 
I've been told the problem with remote oil filters is that the length of the lines creates a delay in oil pressure to mains and other parts of the motor.  Is this a legitimate concern?  If it is, do engine oil coolers cause similar problems?  
 
Second, as I think about the oil filter/cooler combination on the motor it occurred to me that I'd be mounting the transmission oil cooler in about the same location and wondered if it would make sense to put a motor type remote oil filter on the transmission also.  Is there a good reason I've never seen that done?  
 
For context:  
 
This is a 1-ton truck I'm building and I intend to use it to pull a trailer up to 10,000 pounds.  My current trailer is rated at 7,000 and I may never upgrade.  The finished truck will weigh maybe 5,000 pounds plus or minus.  The stock truck is about 4,000 with a standard 9-foot bed.  

The front suspension is the IFS from a '72 Chevy C20.  The rear axle is a 14-bolt with 3.42 gears.  Tires are 32 inches tall and I'll be turning about 1800 at 50, 2550 at 70 and 90 at 3300.  Those numbers are all in the max torque range of the Caddy and leave me confident it would exceed 100 empty.  I may be too old to ever exceed 80 in this truck.  I own a Corvette and have never turned 100 in it.

One of my biggest challenges is keeping the motor cool enough.  That's why a remote filter and cooler approach seems a good option.  Some of my design choices are based on a factory Chevy 1-ton powered by a 454.  It ran hotter than I liked though never over-heated.  It had a huge radiator and an oil cooler.

I imagine crossing Wyoming pulling my loaded trailer at the speed limit and deciding to accelerate from 75 to 80 to pass someone.  I'd rather hear a big gas V-8 roaring than smell Diesel.  If I backed up on the Caddy motor a big block Chevy would be the most probably alternative.

[chimp koose]

If you use a remote oil filter be careful when you select the adapter that mounts to the block. I have seen some that have one of the holes going in from the outer side meet up with another coming from the block side that are drilled from each end of the adapter. The are so mis-aligned that they cause a flow restriction. One of the racers at our home drag strip lost a small block ford motor from a lack of oil that was traced back to the adapter. When I did a sbf swap in a 53 merc truck  a few years ago I needed to remote mount the filter to clear the steering box on the volare front clip.I bought a remote filter kit (I think a trans-dapt product ) and decided to make my own piece to mount the lines to the block because the holes were so off center from each other.

[OldSub]

Thanks Chimp I'll check that carefully.

Anyone else have any experience or comments?

[wayne petty]

i was just thinking of how much trouble it might be...

flow rates needed...    designing in a proper replaceable bypass valve..

possibly using a conventional existing OEM oil filter adaptor...  but i don't know off the top of my head what the thread size is on the 500 cad motor... or what thread size the popular chevy 4.3 V6 or various small block or big block remote adaptors are...

i did notice that dorman sells a bunch of different hoses.. and it also looked like they had some of the quick release adaptors...

if you can just find an adaptor nut that will fit on the cad filter thread stud..

machining an aluminum block... would be easy...  if you think forward enough to design in the factory big block chevy remote filter bypass valve...

you might since you are going to be pumping the oil a LONG way.. want to use one of the NEW melling pump s...  take it all apart and port the passages...   round any intersecting passages  with a long stem ball carbide cutter...   perhaps with a teflon cone on the stem to reduce kick around..  

i was trying to find some info on the 4100 V8 eldorados.. as they had oil coolers in the radiator.. so they must have some kind of filter adaptor.. possibly with the proper thread... but it might not have enough flow for a 500 motor...    

i know that there are a few oil pump rebuilding shops that have oil pump flow test benches... speed, torque, flow and pressure measurements can be taken...


there are also electric oil priming pumps if you are really worried about. it..


i am just wondering if the oil pressure bypass valves that are shown as replacements.. actually keep the lines and filter from emptying when the engine is off...

i have not studied the flow directions of the oil coolers ... but i intend on it...

i also wonder.. if one of the angle adaptors for the 460 fords used in the econoline vans might fit.. the gasket size might be close...  offset passages might still be a problem...    

how bad would it be to have to use a PH8A on a cad motor..


i was waiting to see if anybody else had anything..

[58 Yeoman]

I bought a remote adapter for the 425 Caddy going into my 41 Poncho from a Caddy place in Minnesota (I think).  I haven't gotten it mounted yet, but I figured since he's into Caddy's, he'd know which one would work.  I think it takes a Ford filter, I'd have to dig it out and see.  I could check later on today, and it may still have the bill of sale, so I could tell you where I got it.

[OldSub]

Thanks for the responses!

As far as I know the 500/472/424/368 are all interchangeable though not all exactly the same.  I don't think any of them really solve my clearance problem.

I've found remote filter adapters online at Jegs or another of those kind of places that actually allow running dual Ford filters.  I can get over picking a Ford filter off a shelf by ignoring it was for a Ford, that doesn't bother me very much.

Running dual filters increases my oil capacity that much more which can't be a bad think unless line delay becomes a real problem.

I do not know if the 4100 oil pump/filter mount is the same as the earlier motors.  I also had forgotten it included provision for an oil cooler even though I've taken one apart in the last few years.  I'll look into that, it could solve part of my problem nicely.  But isn't that motor a completely different transverse front drive design?

Wayne your response suggests it might really be a problem and that I many need to learn some specs and do some math to really know.  Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

[enjenjo]

I would keep the lines short by mounting the filters as close as possible to the engine. I would also used dash 10 lines at a minimum.

There are some thermostatic bypass valves that you could use to keep the oil pressure up when the engine is cold.

To be honest, I have used remote filters in the past, and they never caused a problem.

[Bruce Dorsi]

I've been told the problem with remote oil filters is that the length of the lines creates a delay in oil pressure to mains and other parts of the motor.  Is this a legitimate concern?  If it is, do engine oil coolers cause similar problems?  
 
Second, as I think about the oil filter/cooler combination on the motor it occurred to me that I'd be mounting the transmission oil cooler in about the same location and wondered if it would make sense to put a motor type remote oil filter on the transmission also.  Is there a good reason I've never seen that done?  

Perhaps I am misunderstanding some of the problems.

However, if the oil (or ATF) remains in the filter and lines, it can NOT delay an increase in pressure, since these fluids are not compressible.

If the fluids can drain back by gravity or siphon effect, or allow air into the system, then I can see a problem.  

Some oil filters have an anti-drainback valve in them.  .....I may be wrong, but I think these are mainly in filters which are installed horizontally, or inverted.

[OldSub]

I don't know if the remote filters generally available include any kind of hold back valve or not.  Maybe I'm worried about nothing.  One of the guys on the Cadillac site I've been mining for information says he would do anything to avoid a remote filter but his reasoning doesn't all make sense to me.

So I decided to seek knowledge from the smart guys here!

[Digger]

Call these people, i'm sure they have the answers you are looking for.
I have not dealt with them for a couple of years but they were always helpful.
www.500CID.com/home.htm

[OldSub]

Call these people, i'm sure they have the answers you are looking for.
I have not dealt with them for a couple of years but they were always helpful.
www.500CID.com/home.htm

Its actually one of the guys active on their forum who has raised the most questions.  They offer a single filter remote setup. but I'm planning on using a dual and adding a cooler.

The people who are active participants over there are drag race centric and they just think a little different than the long-haul pulling a trailer approach I'm working on.

[OldSub]

To be honest, I have used remote filters in the past, and they never caused a problem.

That may be the most important single line in this whole thread.  It is sure the one thing I wanted to hear!

I will investigate the thermostatic bypass especially for the oil cooler.  There is no point in cooling the oil all the time when it may naturally run close to an ideal temp until I start working the truck hard.

[Crosley.In.AZ]

When I built my front wheel drive 1970 Chevelle , I had to machine up a remote filter adapter  since the chevy oil filter location  was on top of the trans axle assembly.

I ran -10  or -12 lines to a dual  filter mount on the firewall.  I used the Fram HP series of filters.

never had problems with oil flow or pressure.  I spun the 6-71 blown small bock chevy to 7k RPM on several occasions