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I think that maybe, it was a very small warpage on the pump halves, but very, very slight.  I  surfaced the two halves on a marble, with 600 sandpaper and petrol.

Tony, you say steel drum can have cracks, is this the one where the band apply?  I will have a look at it.

I air checked the pistons  clutchs, that's all. Did not see any cracks on the drum, but not entirely sure. The pump halves not flat after been too hot is not a thing I thought about. Maybe the answer.

Thanks for the replie. It seems that I will put it in pieces again!

Hi everybody,

TH200R4 transmission, intalled in a 1935 Ford sedan owned by a friend. I rebuilt it for him a few years ago and he added a transgo kit. It worked nice for around  15000 miles.

In a hot summer day (around 105°fahrenheit) while on a motorway the transmission quitte working. No drive in all shifter position, a "clonk" in reverse and that's all! And reverse acting like in park. The fluid was leaking by the small event tube on top.  I think it was boiling.  He waited a moment, controlled the fluid level, it was ok. Even after letting cool down, no way, it did not work.  He went home on a tow truck.

I dismantled the transmission again, found nothing broken or wrong except the discs brown a little. The fluid was clear and no debris in the oil pan. I controlled every thing, all pistons in valve body, all seals. And rebuilt it again with hi-perf discs, new bushings, gaskets, seals. My friend installed it in the car with a brand new torque convertor, just to be sure.

It did not work and acted exactly the same as before. 

I dismantled it again entirely. Found that the little cup seal under the valve body was not hammered enough.  Though I found the mystake. Reassembled it again.

Did not work.

Took pressures measurements with a pressure gauge in each shifter position, all are correct according the  ATSG book.

This is a big mistery!  I don't know if there are transmission expert here, but I act like a bottle in a sea!

Gilles

Last saturday in Toulouse, south west of France.

Unleaded 1.37€ per liter =  1.88 US$ per liter =

 7.23$ / USgallon!!! :cry:

Gilles

I'm in the exact opposite situation as most of you! I use metric system every days for as long as I was able to turn a wrench!  There are these strange SAE bolts that we find in american cars  that are a problem!   Usually to find them I have to go to a tractor shop or industrial supplier, as some tractors and machine tools are american made. On my 32 roadster there are SAE on the 350 engine, the TH700 is metric  but bolted to the engine by non metrics! SAE on the front-end, but metrics on the rear due to the home-made four-bars. Metrics also on the body and everywhere it was possible. I couldn't find the long bolts for the starter. I had to make them, welding a too short SAE bolt to a 10 milimeter long bolt. Two years ago during a trip in USA I bought two "starter bolt kit" in a Autozone and a wallet of assortment bolts.

So the convertion to metric is not a problem as you.  

But I had to try another big conversion. First january 2002 we stop to use or 700 years old money, the franc, and started to pay with Euros. One Euro is 6.55957 franc! Do te maths!  Even 7 years later is not evident for some old persons to know how much they are paying. And even younger people have to convert to old francs when speaking about big sums, houses prices for exemple. I decided to think in Euros and to forget the francs. It works surprinsingly easily.  
I think the difficulty is to run in parallel two differents systems and try to convert every time. But after some time is automaticall thing. When I read on Street-rodder magazine "two inch top-chop" I think "5 cm top-chop"  55mph is 88 km/h.   70 mph is 112 km/h. And I don't have to calculate, It's in my brain. During a trip to the Engish street rod Nat's a friend said, reading the map "we can go there this night, it's only 100 km" I replied "No, it's 100 miles, 160 km!"

Gilles

Jay was very helpfull  for all the technicall problems I had to try on my 32 roadster. He took the time to answer me in this forum several times a few years ago. Even I never had the opportunity to meet him, I'm sure he was a very good personn. He  sent me to France, for free, 4 hubcaps that are still on my car. The book he wrote, California Hot Rodder is on a shelf with a few books that like the most. It's a very big miss.

Gilles

Hello everybody,

Finally after a few months I decided to take apart again this transmission (fortunately the owner is on another project and not in a hurry).
I found mud in the pan and 3/4 clutch discs fried :x . Probably something wrong on the servo or valve body or 3/4 piston, I didn't tried yet.
I will  order another rebuild kit.
But what about the torque converter?  :?: It is new and used only for a few kilometers during the drive tests. But as there is mud in the pan there is mud in the torque converter too.
Is there a way to clean it inside? Drill and tap a small hole and put a drain plug?
Thanks in advance for the answers.

Gilles

Some news.
Found a broken ring in the 2/4 servo. :x Was too much in a hurry last time I worked on it. Replaced it.
Result : 1/2 shift ok, 2/3 shift with a "false neutral". In facts it shifts in third with light throttle but at loud  throttle it acts like in neutral. No fourth gear :x  :x  :x  :x
Replaced the entire 2/4 servo by another. Exactly same sympthom. So I hope the servo is not at fault  :cry:
I feel very sad. This week-end there is the French street-rod Nat's and my friend is not able to go with his 34 coupe because of my fault! Certainly the last time I rebuild a transmission for someone. It's my fifth TH700 and the 4 previous works! Really don't know what to do now, except to take it apart for the third time and carefully inspect each component?  

:cry:  :cry:  :cry: Gilles :cry:  :cry: :cry:

No 2 or 4th gears is a servo problem . servo for the 2 - 4 band.

Thanks for the advice.  last night I get a servo from a transmission I have for spares, cleaned the parts and put new rings on.  My friend had to cut a hole in the floor to be able to remove the 2/4servo without to remove the transmission from the car!  I cross my fingers!

Gilles

Some news :  Put a new separator plate and gaskets.

There is only first and third gear, no second and no fourth.  Now I absolutly don't know what to look for. for. :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:


Gilles

Interesting topic.

The gas price in France is like crafty says for England : around 1.50€ per liter, or 8.5/9$ per gallon. But the dollar is very weak at the moment, making a false comparaison.

During a trip in USA last year I was chocked to see so much very big trucks. I think a truck driver license would be necessary to drive them in France! Same with motor-homes.

Another chock is the lack of diesel engine, even in trucks. Here 70% of cars and 100% of trucks are diesel powered.

My rent car in the USA was a PT cruiser. The gas mileage was pretty bad, no more than 23 mpg. I don't know if normal or an exception.

The european equivalent  car in size,  for exemple a renault scenic or citroen picasso, powered by a 110HP  common-rail injection turbo-diesel, with 5 or 6 speed manual transmission gets an average 45/48mpg on roads, 35to 40 mpg in town. As for most of european diesel powered cars.  A toyota prius has no more gas mileage than our average car-except in town- and simply doesn't worth the extra cost.  Citroen and peugeot are working in a small 3 cylinders diesel hybrid car that will do 80 mpg.
It's why we can manage our gas prices, cars built with efficiency in mind. Another factor is the much density of population. We have to travel less, and it's easier to developp good public transportation. But a lot of people (living in the countryside) have to drive a lot to go to work, these are in trouble now with the petrol prices. My job is 5 km (around 3 miles)from home, I use a bicycle most of the time for 12 years now. When the weather goes bad in winter I take the bus. It's not only because of the fuel price. It's far more practicle. Drive a car and find to park it simply a hassle. 3 miles means at least 8 red lights, one or 2 roundabouts, 4 or 6 speed bumps! And I prefer spend petrol in my V8 powered roadster on week-ends than in my 4 cylinders small french car during the week!

I know that the USA is totaly different, most of the city where built for cars, the distances are uge and public transportation-or bicycles lanes- useless.  I heard on the news that you are discussing on the 4 days week.

I'm sure that your car makers will react and start to build energy efficient cars, wich is possible with the technology alreaday availlable. Less fuel consumption will lower the barrel price, and it will make less expensive to drive our hot -rods!

Gilles

Thanks for the reply.

Last WE I dismantled entirely the valve body, cleaned and verified everything. Also for the pump. The only not in perfect condition part is the separator plate, bent where the 1/2 accumulator spring applies.  Watching carrefully it seems that at the accumulator housing place the gasket is not regularly dwarfed (because of the warped separator plate), maybe causing a leak in the second gear circuit.
We ordered a new separator plate and gaskets, we are crossing our fingers right now that it will work! :?

Gilles

One fact that's maybe important  : I did a mistake assembling the TV piston, the pin wasn't in the good location. The result was the TV cable travel too short because the piston hiting the pin. I fixed this problem before the first start of the engine but I had to remove the valve-body. As I don't have spare gaskets I reused them, unable to know if I was doing a big mistake or not.  I wonder if it can cause a leak and explain the problem?

Gilles

check the governor for movement of the inner valve. Must be loose - easy to move. Plastiic gear must be good , not loose.

The governor is OK and inner piston is free.

Check shift valves in the valve body. Must be clean , move freely each way.

Apparently everything OK.

Check TV inner valve in the v-body. Must be free , move easily.

OK too

You may be having a "false fail safe" mode IF you installed the 5/16" diameter check ball near the TV valve assembly in the trans case. This check ball is LARGER than the 1/4" check balls.

There are 4 check-ball in the trans case all the same size.

The TV bore can wear and allow fluid to bypass more.. with 5/16" check ball in place it may have a "false fail safe" and transmission will shift late - high RPM of engine.

The transmission does not shift watever the engine RPm!

Did you remove - replace the thimble screen filter in the governor passage of the trans case?

Yes I replaced this filter.

I will have a look this week-end and remove another time the valve-body, for wich I don't have another pair of gaskets!

Gilles

Hello,

I have a problem with a 1992 TH700R4 transmission. :x  This transmission installed in a 34 Ford coupe of a friend of mine started recently to slip a lot. I rebuilt the transmission for him using a transtar rebuilt kit and transgo correction kit. It's the fifth Th700 I rebuild,  including the one I have in my roadster. The forward discs were totally burnt and the piston cracked, I replaced it, and all the discs, the band and gaskets availlable in the kit, like I always do.

Now the mysterious problem : The transmission works in reverse, works in first gear but there is no upshift watever the shift lever is, second, drive or overdrive. We tested with different TV cable adjustment. No success. I read carrefully the ATSG technical book. For no upshift they say it can be : the governor,  pin band not correctly installed, #322 piston in the valve body sticking, 2/4servo band damaged, separator plate or gaskets damaged. I spent 5 hours last night crawling under the car  carefully checking all these things. Nothing wrong as I can see. Except maybe some minor marks on the separator plate where the check-balls hits. After all of this another test drive : no success same problem.
According to the book in first gear there are 3 clutch engaged, in second gear the only difference is the band holding too. So it seems there is is something wrong somewhere in the 2/4 band pressure circuit.  As my friend lives 100 km from my home we removed the transmission from the car, and I bring it to home, arriving at 1 am. Ouch!  I have really to find what's wrong. It's the car show season, we already- him but me also- canceled a big one this week-end. Grrrr!!! :cry:  :cry:
Any suggestions?

Gilles